Defending Canada from American Military aggression

[Altair]

It was the summer of 1812...

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And all was quiet on the Southern front....

 

[Czech_pivo]

I hate that this is even a topic on here now. Regardless if some/few/most/none think that it could occur, the mere fact that its now up for a point of discussion speaks for itself.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I hate that this is even a topic on here now. Regardless if some/few/most/none think that it could occur, the mere fact that its now up for a point of discussion speaks for itself.

I don't. I think being honest about our ability to defend our sovereignty is the absolute most basic concept and topic that every country needs to answer for its self.

What I hate, is that not just out ability but the willingness of Canadians to stand in defiance is actually in question.

And I hate that so many people who actually have no intention of standing up themselves expect others to it for them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Vichy Canada will be a thing if this thread is any indication

Dragging this over here. 100%. And I feel many, on this site even, will be disillusioned and shocked when they see who actually make up the Vichy Canadians.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't. I think being honest about our ability to defend our sovereignty is the absolute most basic concept and topic that every country needs to answer for its self.

What I hate, is that not just out ability but the willingness of Canadians to stand in defiance is actually in question.

And I hate that so many people who actually have no intention of standing up themselves expect others to it for them.

Hence the question that I put forward to you early. Is now the time to stand up a Tiger team on the merits of Canada developing/controlling its own nuclear weapons.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hence the question that I put forward to you early. Is now the time to stand up a Tiger team on the merits of Canada developing/controlling its own nuclear weapons.

Did you read/listen to the links in my reply ?

No, its not the time to convene and think about it. Canada doesn't need a tiger team. We have the resources and ability, just do it. Build the big stick.

 

[Altair]

Hence the question that I put forward to you early. Is now the time to stand up a Tiger team on the merits of Canada developing/controlling its own nuclear weapons.

I said we should back when Trump was musing about the 51st state stuff.

Seems like people were of 1 of 3 camps

1) Too expensive.

Like paying for our sovereignty should have a limit.

2)America would not let us and it would be noticed

I remain unconvinced.

3)Nuclear war should be avoided at all costs, even if it means surrender.

Usual suspects.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Did you read/listen to the links in my reply ?

No, its not the time to convene and think about it. Canada doesn't need a tiger team. We have the resources and ability, just do it. Build the big stick.

I watched about 20-25mins at the beginning of it. I've yet to watch the remaining 1hr. I will get to it as I feel it is worth watching.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I suspect there are different tiers of lists from watch all the way from "watch" to "make disappear day one". I know which list I prefer being on lol.

Dragging this over here...

I have a bug out plan... I don't expect it to survive first contact, but I have direction to move in. And they will have to find me.

This plan is for most contingencies where social order has ceased. And existed long before DJT came into view.

 

[childs56]

The last year or 10 have been concerning, this past year more so. If a person starts to lineup timelines of gun confiscation, civil order control, moving of large corporations HQ and manufacturing south of the border and now the recent threat of annexing Canada, Greenland It makes one wonder if this was not the plan for the past while.

I would think if the US did forcibly take Canada and or Greenland it would spark off a world war of sorts. Not a conventional war but one that would make the "insurgency" of Afghanistan, Iraq and the middle east seem like amateurs were running the show. Internationally Canada is still seen as a safe and secure place that is friendly to the majority of the world. The US is not framed in the same light.

One has to wonder during those 2017ish meetings between JT and VP what was discussed behind closed doors. Time lines start coming along nicely for their conquering and reasserting their authority levels Cold War style X 10. VT stated he wanted to reunite the Former Soviet Union. JT said he wanted to make America great again.
Since Europe and the rest of the Western Nations ignored their warning, one should be thinking were they setting the stage?

Here we are on the verge of some form of new Alliances tackling the two largest physical threats who each group thought were their economic friends and physical partners.

I never in my life thought I would hear a US president say they would annex Canada willingly or not.
Nor did I think I would be watching Russia slowly taking over Europe by force one piece at a time.
We learned nothing over the past 100 plus years.

 

[GR66]

Did you read/listen to the links in my reply ?

No, its not the time to convene and think about it. Canada doesn't need a tiger team. We have the resources and ability, just do it. Build the big stick.

This to me is possibly the most damaging thing that Trump has done...unleash such uncertainty - even among former allies - that all countries are forced to consider developing their own nuclear weapons as the ultimate form of security.

More countries having nuclear weapons will not remove the tension points and conflicts in the World. It will simply increase the likelihood that those conflicts will go nuclear. And with such an interconnected World it is unlikely that local nuclear conflicts will remain local.

The main thing that the Cold War alliance system ensured was that large groups of allied countries were protected under the massive nuclear umbrellas of the Super Powers. Even rogue states like North Korea knew that if they should actually attack South Korea or Japan with nuclear weapons that they would face the full weight of US nuclear retaliation.

If the alliances break apart and the US no longer can be trusted as the security guarantor for the West writ large and we instead break down into a group of small nuclear powers and aspiring nuclear powers then countries involved in local/regional conflicts may be tempted to use nuclear weapons before their opponent can get them or simply launch conventional attacks before their enemy has the chance to develop them.

This is a very dangerous type of World where things can easily escalate to a point where it's not our sovereignty that is at risk, but our very existence.

 

[Eaglelord17]

This to me is possibly the most damaging thing that Trump has done...unleash such uncertainty - even among former allies - that all countries are forced to consider developing their own nuclear weapons as the ultimate form of security.

More countries having nuclear weapons will not remove the tension points and conflicts in the World. It will simply increase the likelihood that those conflicts will go nuclear. And with such an interconnected World it is unlikely that local nuclear conflicts will remain local.

The main thing that the Cold War alliance system ensured was that large groups of allied countries were protected under the massive nuclear umbrellas of the Super Powers. Even rogue states like North Korea knew that if they should actually attack South Korea or Japan with nuclear weapons that they would face the full weight of US nuclear retaliation.

If the alliances break apart and the US no longer can be trusted as the security guarantor for the West writ large and we instead break down into a group of small nuclear powers and aspiring nuclear powers then countries involved in local/regional conflicts may be tempted to use nuclear weapons before their opponent can get them or simply launch conventional attacks before their enemy has the chance to develop them.

This is a very dangerous type of World where things can easily escalate to a point where it's not our sovereignty that is at risk, but our very existence.

The deterioration of the ‘nuclear umbrella’ started well before Trump. He is just starting to put the nail in the coffin.

In the Post-USSR era where the US had a completely open hand on what they wanted they slowly broke that concept well Russia et al was still weak and recovering. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan for no valid reason was the start.

Slowly knocking off ‘adversaries’ in the world (Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela, etc.) shows that you need to be nuclear to prevent American imperialism.

Refusing to prevent Russia’s invasion of Ukraine despite guaranteeing their security is the final major shift. They gave up nukes for said guarantee and turns out they made a grave mistake which has resulted in close to 1m Ukrainians dead.

The guarantees America has provided aren’t worth the paper they are written on once America has gotten what they wanted. The only country you can trust is your own, as the West is finding out it was a huge mistake to put the vast majority of our eggs in one basket.

 

[KevinB]

The deterioration of the ‘nuclear umbrella’ started well before Trump. He is just starting to put the nail in the coffin.

In the Post-USSR era where the US had a completely open hand on what they wanted they slowly broke that concept well Russia et al was still weak and recovering. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan for no valid reason was the start.

When you start your argument with just hollow assumptions, the rest is just garbage flowing from a sewer.

Slowly knocking off ‘adversaries’ in the world (Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela, etc.) shows that you need to be nuclear to prevent American imperialism.

Yes just America on that

Refusing to prevent Russia’s invasion of Ukraine despite guaranteeing their security is the final major shift. They gave up nukes for said guarantee and turns out they made a grave mistake which has resulted in close to 1m Ukrainians dead.

Yes America failed there — so did the UK, and well Russia…

The guarantees America has provided aren’t worth the paper they are written on once America has gotten what they wanted. The only country you can trust is your own, as the West is finding out it was a huge mistake to put the vast majority of our eggs in one basket.

Canada ate its eggs long before thinking about a basket.

 

[Kirkhill]

The last year or 10 have been concerning, this past year more so. If a person starts to lineup timelines of gun confiscation, civil order control, moving of large corporations HQ and manufacturing south of the border and now the recent threat of annexing Canada, Greenland It makes one wonder if this was not the plan for the past while.

I would think if the US did forcibly take Canada and or Greenland it would spark off a world war of sorts. Not a conventional war but one that would make the "insurgency" of Afghanistan, Iraq and the middle east seem like amateurs were running the show. Internationally Canada is still seen as a safe and secure place that is friendly to the majority of the world. The US is not framed in the same light.

One has to wonder during those 2017ish meetings between JT and VP what was discussed behind closed doors. Time lines start coming along nicely for their conquering and reasserting their authority levels Cold War style X 10. VT stated he wanted to reunite the Former Soviet Union. JT said he wanted to make America great again.
Since Europe and the rest of the Western Nations ignored their warning, one should be thinking were they setting the stage?

Here we are on the verge of some form of new Alliances tackling the two largest physical threats who each group thought were their economic friends and physical partners.

I never in my life thought I would hear a US president say they would annex Canada willingly or not.
Nor did I think I would be watching Russia slowly taking over Europe by force one piece at a time.
We learned nothing over the past 100 plus years.

I think you would likely end up with a repeat of Ulster or Vichy France.

Most of the population would aquiesce most of the time. Some of the population would moan and may even assist the "resistance" from time to time. A very small portion of the population would be actively engaged in making life difficult and causing life to be difficult for the rest.

The difference between Vichy and Ulster was the quality of the external support. In Ulster the IRA had no expectation of the PLO or the Russians showing up off Bantry Bay to come to their aid. In Vichy they were constantly aware of the building armada heading their way.

in Canada some folks could take to the hills - lots of room between hamlets in the north

 

[Kirkhill]

@Eaglelord17

I have to agree with @KevinB

A well functioning country would build its insurance policy to manage all threats. It shouldn't require a particular focus. It should be prepared to manage any threat from any quarter.

Kind of like keeping both eyes open and your head on a swivel to prevent tunnel vision.

The threat is not just from the Americans. And the Americans (and Europeans) were never an alternative to a domestic capability to defend ourselves and our claims.

There is a reason why other countries rely on rockets and planes. They have the ability to reach out over long distances rapidly to touch some one. They are a cost effective alternative to maintaining divisions of troops on the borders.

The fact that we have neither troops, nor rockets nor an up to date air force (we are arguing about which 5th generation solution we are going to buy when the 6th, and probably 7th, generation solutions are already on the boards) speaks volumes.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... In Ulster the IRA had no expectation of the PLO or the Russians showing up off Bantry Bay to come to their aid ...

NORAID and Libya, notwithstanding

 

[Kirkhill]

NORAID and Libya, notwithstanding

The occasional shipment of Armalites and Semtex is not quite the same a Motor Rifle Brigade.....

 

[Czech_pivo]

NORAID and Libya, notwithstanding

As someone that lived in Boston in the late 90's....a number of boats left that area from time to time.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Nor did I think I would be watching Russia slowly taking over Europe by force one piece at a time.
We learned nothing over the past 100 plus years.

Bit of a stretch from "Ukraine" to "Europe". NATO is still in the way, US or not.