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Den Tandt: Make St. Patrick's rioters do military service

57Chevy

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Den Tandt: Make St. Patrick's rioters do military service
Michael Den Tandt, Postmedia News March 19, 2012
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Tandt+Make+Patrick+rioters+military+service/6326166/story.html#ixzz1peDxsmKh

"If a man is not a socialist at 20, he has no heart. If he remains a socialist at 30 he has no brain." — Georges Clemenceau

From the vantage point of middle age, little is more depressing than the prospect of becoming an angry, wizened old coot, slouched on his front porch, tossing little sticks at passing teenagers.

Which is why I am a little reluctant to wade into the London, Ont., riots debate, if indeed it can be called that. What's to debate? Getting mad at these designer-panted, Xbox-playing, skateboard-riding tweenagers (a tweenager being a young hobbit in his 20s, not fully mature, in Tolkien's eyes) is too easy. Fish in a barrel.

On the other hand, these little fish did trash a London city street, attack police and firefighters with bricks, boards and bottles, and burn a CTV news van, at a cost estimated at $100,000. The 1,000-strong mob could easily have killed someone. That it didn't is a testament to either brilliant police work or, more likely, luck.

Just as in the aftermath of the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots, it's reasonable to ask why. No doubt the soft-hearted will proffer the usual answers — alienation, disenfranchisement, lousy employment prospects and the like. "Poor dears, we've failed them so." And I think, actually, that we have failed them. But not in the way that some may think. We've failed them by giving them too much and asking too little in return.


Video games?

Authors such as Lt. Col. Dave Grossman contend that prolonged exposure to point-and-shoot 'killing' war games desensitizes players to violence and lowers the natural human inhibition against it.

Grossman offers this as a reason for inner-city mayhem in the United States. I'm not so sure that adds up. I know gamers, young and old, and it seems to me that kids who are decent and not inclined to violence do not become violent simply because they've played World of Warcraft or Call of Duty. (But do video games turn kids into couch potatoes and slugs? Absolutely.)

What about the decline of moral training and civility generally? Possibly that is a factor. Certainly we live in an indecorous time, in which basic manners and grammar both receive short shrift in the schools. Traditional ethical training, as embodied in most world religious systems, has been on the wane in Canadian homes for 30 years at least. On the other hand: Are we to believe that privileged suburban kids, raised by middle-class professional parents, were never taught right from wrong, or that rioting just for the damn fun of it is bad? That doesn't really add up either, it seems to me. Middle-class working parents, whatever their religious inclinations, tend to teach their kids the value of becoming a middle-class working parent. Rioting and possible jail time are not on the menu.

Here's what I think: we see manifested in the young rioters an extreme form of a malaise that affects all Canadians generally. That is, that we are pampered, to the point of making us spiritually poor. In young people, perhaps that translates into recklessness.

Canadians have no natural geopolitical enemies. We live in a country rich in resources and mostly free of earthquakes, floods, volcanoes and other natural disasters. Our country is so vast and naturally wealthy, generous and free, by global standards, that it seems a paradise to most people who don't live here. It really is extraordinary, when you travel just about anywhere, to come home. You are painfully aware, especially for the first few days back, of how extraordinarily well the vast majority of us live, compared to just about everyone else.

If Canadians generally are pampered, it stands to reason that our children are even more so — and not necessarily by deliberate parental or societal intent. The generation of kids now in their 20s has been given everything, because their parents love them and they want for nothing. But the lack of any hardship can itself become a hardship, morally and spiritually. What middle-class hooligans lack, perhaps, is a hard challenge and the adrenalin that flows from overcoming it. Hence, the false allure of the riot. How naive, smug, insular and dull must a person be to brag, on Facebook or Twitter, of the crime they've just committed? Only someone who lives entirely in a bubble of comfort could be capable of such stupidity.

Which brings us to my proposed reform and full circle perhaps to the grizzled elder shaking his fist on the front porch. If that is to be my fate, so be it.

I suggest giving those found guilty in the St. Paddy's Day London riot, anyone aged 17 or over, the choice of six strokes of the cane, a la Michael Fay, or two years' military service, a crew cut and "pull up your pants" to be imposed without delay. Or, they should be required to put in two years' community service someplace north, like Attawapiskat, where conditions are tough. Better yet, make a year of military or community service compulsory for all after high school. Let them see how the other half lives and let them put some sweat into helping others.

Honestly, it wouldn't do them a bit of harm. And it might do them a lot of good.





 
57Chevy said:
Honestly, it wouldn't do them a bit of harm. And it might do them a lot of good.
It might do them a lot of good, but the military is not a reform school.  Members of the military must live up to the highest expectations of society (yes, some do not but they must be held to account).  The military exercises force - lethal force - on behalf of the government.  It cannot and must not have room for hooliganism.

If the military is used as a dumping ground for those who cannot control themselves, then the ethical fibre of the organization will be corroded - more & more, the military would succumb to unacceptable disciplinary shortcomings.

If we want to reform these rioters by putting them somewhere with a little hardship, then we should send them to an institution designed for that purpose of reform; we should send them to prison.
 
MCG said:
It might do them a lot of good, but the military is not a reform school.  Members of the military must live up to the highest expectations of society (yes, some do not but they must be held to account).  The military exercises force - lethal force - on behalf of the government.  It cannot and must not have room for hooliganism.
Agreed.  It's interesting how I've never heard anyone say, "let's toughen these punks up by putting them through mandatory police training" and ask to have said "cops" protect their neighbourhood.
 
Mind you back in the day, a Judge would give a person in front of them the choice....jail or the army..........
 
Larry Strong said:
Mind you back in the day, a Judge would give a person in front of them the choice....jail or the army..........
That's true, but you have to admit, we're talking a very different:
1)  young person; and
2)  army
than today's, no?
 
Mind you back in the day, a Judge would give a person in front of them the choice....jail or the army..........
which might be one of the reasons why the US has some of the issues it has today.

let's toughen these punks up by putting them through mandatory police training
Police Academy movies 1-7... then again it is a comedy.


I wouldn't have an issue with the choice being hard labour vs jail.
 
The CF is not the place to correct the social ills Canadian youth, but not for the reasons listed already.

Den Tandt, and likely a significant segment of Canadian population, would be disappointed to know that the fantasy of Gunnery-Sergeant R. Lee. Ermey, a la Full Metal Jacket, doesn't exist. These people don't seem to realize that the CF is part of society -- we're not isolated in cages marked "in case of war, break glass -- we're victim to the same sociologist-driven malaise that effects the rest of the country.

If one of these pampered kids, that 'society has failed' ::) shows up for Recruit training unable to do a push-up, rather than being yelled at to "get down and give me 20, *$&#*% maggot!," they'll be shuffled off to an ego-soothingly named "Warrior Platoon" with admonitions of "there, there muffin; you're still a good person. Hugs?"

No, if you want these kids to experience a society where "pampered," "entitlement," and "XBox" are more scarce within the vocabulary, have the NGOs take them to Africa and South Asia to work for six months.
 
On the other hand, note how no journalists ever say "We should make them work as journalists, as that field clearly will turn them into morally upstanding, hard-working and productive members of society."

At least journalists are honest about themselves.
 
Really I think this journalist was just making making a point.  He also mentioned sending them up north as well as having them caned.

I think he was trying to say that most youth haven't ever lived any real hardship and that service of any kind would do them some good.

He even says it himself that he's turned into the old man on the porch waving his fist.
 
Journeyman said:
The CF is not the place to correct the social ills Canadian youth, but not for the reasons listed already.

Den Tandt, and likely a significant segment of Canadian population, would be disappointed to know that the fantasy of Gunnery-Sergeant R. Lee. Ermey, a la Full Metal Jacket, doesn't exist. These people don't seem to realize that the CF is part of society -- we're not isolated in cages marked "in case of war, break glass -- we're victim to the same sociologist-driven malaise that effects the rest of the country.

If one of these pampered kids, that 'society has failed' ::) shows up for Recruit training unable to do a push-up, rather than being yelled at to "get down and give me 20, *$&#*% maggot!," they'll be shuffled off to an ego-soothingly named "Warrior Platoon" with admonitions of "there, there muffin; you're still a good person. Hugs?"

No, if you want these kids to experience a society where "pampered," "entitlement," and "XBox" are more scarce within the vocabulary, have the NGOs take them to Africa and South Asia to work for six months.

:goodpost:
 
That being said, a common memory that is created by National Service does creating a binding thread in a diverse country. I noticed this quite a bit in Malaysia and Singapore. Mind you Malaysia has moved to a "lottery system" and also has a "Youth corp" as the army was not big enough to absorb all of the recruits.
 
Colin P said:
That being said, a common memory that is created by National Service does creating a binding thread in a diverse country.
Yes, but that assumes a 'binding thread' is a political aim; our government has publicly proclaimed it's support for cultural diversity.
 
I always notice that it is those who have no prior military service that float this idea.
 
In much of the world, compulsory service is the norm, voluntary service is actually I suspect the oddity.
 
I don't particularly envy the Pl WO who would have to deal with the dicipline issues that would arise from having people who have no desire to be there
 
I'm not against some form of compulsary service.  Doesn't have to be military but some type of volunteer/community service would be fine.

In Ont you need 40 hours of volunteer service to graduate.  Frankly I would up it to 40 hours a year at least.  And it would have to be in some sort of civic oriented type of thing.

Heck, I'd be even more draconian and force everyone to get those hours if you want to vote at age 18.  When you don't earn something you tend to value it to a lesser degree.  Tell them they can't get something unless they accomplish certain benchmarks everyone else has and you'll see what kind of an effort gets put into it.
 
Singapore prepares it's youth for the day they enter the forces, so they know what to expect (or should) If you go to Singapore check out the "Discovery Centre" Military Museum and "education centre" to teach youths about Singapore and their ideals.
http://www.sdc.com.sg/

Of course all systems have their issues http://kementah.blogspot.ca/2011/04/maid-in-singapore-singapore-armed.html  :nod:
 
Colin P said:
In much of the world, compulsory service is the norm, voluntary service is actually I suspect the oddity.

According to Wikipedia less than half the countries in the world have conscription and of those that do conscription policies vary greatly in application.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service
 
It would seem a large number of countries moved from conscription to voluntary between 2000-2010
 
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