Denmark to Deploy Fennec Helos
- Thread starter tomahawk6
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A post at The Torch (based on an English AFP story):
Danes reinforcing troops in Afstan with choppers
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/04/danes-reinforcing-troops-in-afstan-with.html
Mark
Ottawa
Danes reinforcing troops in Afstan with choppers
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/04/danes-reinforcing-troops-in-afstan-with.html
Mark
Ottawa
Insulting a Country with comments like a UAV would be better, or how much weapons fire would it take.
How much weapons fire can you take and survive?
Any helo is a good Helo in my books. Although it is small and limited in what it can do. Having that machine in the area can mean the difference between life and death for a soldier on the ground or an airmen shot down.
The psycologicle aspect of a helicopter to both the enemy and friendly troops is worth the deployment in itself.
A fast Deployment of hot food, small amount of ammunition, one or two replacement troops, medivac is peice of mind to me not to mention route Recce with eyes on the actual ground.
Never seems to amaze me comments on here.
How much weapons fire can you take and survive?
Any helo is a good Helo in my books. Although it is small and limited in what it can do. Having that machine in the area can mean the difference between life and death for a soldier on the ground or an airmen shot down.
The psycologicle aspect of a helicopter to both the enemy and friendly troops is worth the deployment in itself.
A fast Deployment of hot food, small amount of ammunition, one or two replacement troops, medivac is peice of mind to me not to mention route Recce with eyes on the actual ground.
Never seems to amaze me comments on here.
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CTD,
Umm.... how am I insulting a country by wondering out loud about it's vulnerability to ground fire.
I was the 1st to recognize it's value for route recce & target acquisition work - because there is lots of value there but, WTF is with your comment ???
Umm.... how am I insulting a country by wondering out loud about it's vulnerability to ground fire.
I was the 1st to recognize it's value for route recce & target acquisition work - because there is lots of value there but, WTF is with your comment ???
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Geo, I think CTD is referring to the "pointed" comments by Jammer. One of the problems of not writing complete paragraphs is that there is considerable room for the reader to fill in the rest of the blanks as they see fit.
I think it is fair comment to wonder about the survivability of the Fennec and comparing it to our kit. However it is also fair comment to point out that the Danes HAVE the Fennec. They do not HAVE Predators. They need the Overwatch capability and are supplying it with the tools they have available. The fact that their air crew and command structure are willing to take the additional risks necessary to supply that capability speaks volumes to me.
One up for the Danes.
I think it is fair comment to wonder about the survivability of the Fennec and comparing it to our kit. However it is also fair comment to point out that the Danes HAVE the Fennec. They do not HAVE Predators. They need the Overwatch capability and are supplying it with the tools they have available. The fact that their air crew and command structure are willing to take the additional risks necessary to supply that capability speaks volumes to me.
One up for the Danes.
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Let me expand on my point then.
1. We don't have Predator/Reaper either. We "buy" time from the owners and pay for any ordnace expended
2. The value added IMHO by having the Fennec there is purely political theatrics on the part of the Danish Gov't. Much like the Danish det that was at M'asum Ghar last year. They hung out there 'till the first mortar atk and then buggered off back to KAF. National caveats I suppose.
3. TUAV overwatch is much less obtrusive than a helicopter. It can also hang around a heck of a lot longer.
4. I will concede the argument ref medevac...THAT is a no brainer.
CTD, your arguments (all except the 'insulting another country') have merit but I think the Danes could do better by sending over a couple of their EH-101s here the can really be useful, (national caveats not withstanding.)
1. We don't have Predator/Reaper either. We "buy" time from the owners and pay for any ordnace expended
2. The value added IMHO by having the Fennec there is purely political theatrics on the part of the Danish Gov't. Much like the Danish det that was at M'asum Ghar last year. They hung out there 'till the first mortar atk and then buggered off back to KAF. National caveats I suppose.
3. TUAV overwatch is much less obtrusive than a helicopter. It can also hang around a heck of a lot longer.
4. I will concede the argument ref medevac...THAT is a no brainer.
CTD, your arguments (all except the 'insulting another country') have merit but I think the Danes could do better by sending over a couple of their EH-101s here the can really be useful, (national caveats not withstanding.)
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Ummm... Our current UAVs can't lay down covering fire. TUAVs employed by some of our friends can.
However, that having been said, the TB will have an instinctual fear of doing things when a manned helo is nearby... dissuading effect of ever trying to plant IED. If the UAV is unseen up there, the TB will place his trust in Allah and give it a try...."In sha allah"
However, that having been said, the TB will have an instinctual fear of doing things when a manned helo is nearby... dissuading effect of ever trying to plant IED. If the UAV is unseen up there, the TB will place his trust in Allah and give it a try...."In sha allah"
EH101, to a hot dusty climate. The helicopter was not designed for that. It will work, but not with out lots of problems with dust in the electronics.
Sending a small inexpensive simple helicopter into a dusty hot environment makes the most sense. Bigger does not mean better. Especially when you talk about the high tech end of helicopters and their systems to keep them operating.
Simple push rods and basic navigation systems work better for desert type environments,
As opposed to electronic, requiring extensive cooling, dust protection from electronic components needed to fly the machine.
I think it is a smart choice. the same as I think Canada should send it's Griffins over there. How ever underrated they are and all the other political aspects it can be used.
Using UAVs is great if you own them as already stated. But if you dont have the assets to own a larger UAV that can carry offensive armament then you are on a waiting list for the resource. Same as Helicopters if you dont own them you are on a list. If you dont rank for that list then you have to find other means. This has happened in every war and will continue to happen.
So in order to fill a gap they are sending a small light helicopter to carry out over watch and recce for their assets on the ground. GREAT IDEA. wish we did that.
In this situation the cost of operating the EH101 may be a huge limiting factor. Not only monetarily but life span wise.
Sending a small inexpensive simple helicopter into a dusty hot environment makes the most sense. Bigger does not mean better. Especially when you talk about the high tech end of helicopters and their systems to keep them operating.
Simple push rods and basic navigation systems work better for desert type environments,
As opposed to electronic, requiring extensive cooling, dust protection from electronic components needed to fly the machine.
I think it is a smart choice. the same as I think Canada should send it's Griffins over there. How ever underrated they are and all the other political aspects it can be used.
Using UAVs is great if you own them as already stated. But if you dont have the assets to own a larger UAV that can carry offensive armament then you are on a waiting list for the resource. Same as Helicopters if you dont own them you are on a list. If you dont rank for that list then you have to find other means. This has happened in every war and will continue to happen.
So in order to fill a gap they are sending a small light helicopter to carry out over watch and recce for their assets on the ground. GREAT IDEA. wish we did that.
In this situation the cost of operating the EH101 may be a huge limiting factor. Not only monetarily but life span wise.
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This appears to be a A-star in military colours, the pilots here in BC like A-star as they have more power, faster response and a smaller rotor diameter than the 206, not sure how they compare to a 207.
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Danish Army Fennecs:
If only we could convince the Taliban to fight somewhere with a lower density altitude...
FLIR and rocket pods anyone?
But as long as we're on the topic of utilizing what you own, there's always the elephant in the room:
Yes, those are rocket pods. And an optical sensor ball. And what looks like a 50 cal or two. And chaff/flare launcher, and active IRCM jammer. And Missile Approach Warning Sensors. And it's flying somewhere hot.
There's a lot of money going into the Chinooks, and I think it could be prudent to look at using some of that money for powertrain and other upgrades to some or all the Griffins instead. We wouldn't need to buy as many CH-147 airframes if the Griffin could carry what other Hueys routinely carry, and the Griffin would have new capabilities and roles that we do/will need.
If only we could convince the Taliban to fight somewhere with a lower density altitude...
FLIR and rocket pods anyone?
But as long as we're on the topic of utilizing what you own, there's always the elephant in the room:
Yes, those are rocket pods. And an optical sensor ball. And what looks like a 50 cal or two. And chaff/flare launcher, and active IRCM jammer. And Missile Approach Warning Sensors. And it's flying somewhere hot.
There's a lot of money going into the Chinooks, and I think it could be prudent to look at using some of that money for powertrain and other upgrades to some or all the Griffins instead. We wouldn't need to buy as many CH-147 airframes if the Griffin could carry what other Hueys routinely carry, and the Griffin would have new capabilities and roles that we do/will need.
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