Dissaembly and transporting a pistol

[Jarnhamar]

An 'illegal' 30 round AR15 magazine ceases to be illegal if you dissemble it.


Could someone theoretically take down a restricted pistol into 3 or 4 parts and transport the pieces separately without inciting the wrath of the RCMP, sans ATT?

 

[Loachman]

The "frame or receiver" is what legally constitutes the pistol. Everything else is an uncontrolled part. Those you can move without an ATT. The frame or receiver, no.

Magazines have no equivalent to a "frame or receiver" within the law. All components are uncontrolled parts when separated.

 

[KevinB]

Pistols/Restricted and Prohibited firearms require locked case and trigger lock.


or down here a good holster 

 

[Jarnhamar]

The "frame or receiver" is what legally constitutes the pistol. Everything else is an uncontrolled part. Those you can move without an ATT. The frame or receiver, no.

Magazines have no equivalent to a "frame or receiver" within the law. All components are uncontrolled parts when separated.

Understood thanks.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This was discussed on CGN, the common belief was that a disassembled full capacity magazine not pinned to 5 or 10rds was not a prohibited device. However a court case involving an individual importing mags bodies to pin and then sell them, was charged and found guilty of having a  prohibited device. The judge ruled that the mag body was the device in question as I recall. I not saying I agree with the judge, but advising you to be careful.

 

[Loachman]

I know of no such case. More likely, the person struck a deal rather than undergo the cost and risk of a trial. The Crown seems to favour that route, as it avoids putting stupid laws to the test and risk losing them.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's interesting.

A 30 round AR15 magazine is illegal.
A 30 round AR15 magazine with a nut and bolt in it from canadian tire pinning it to 5 rounds is legal.
A 30 round AR 15 magazine in 4 pieces (body, spring, floor plate and cartridge thingie) is illegal?

 

[Robert0288]

Just to add to the confusion.  An AR15 mag designed to go in a LAR-15 pistol can be pinned to 10 rounds, because it's a pistol mag and not a rifle mag despite being able to fit in both.

 

[Loachman]

A 30 round AR 15 magazine in 4 pieces (body, spring, floor plate and cartridge thingie) is illegal?

Not as far as anybody knows, ie until the Supreme Court rules as such (or declines to accept a case ruled upon by a lower court).

No single part of a magazine has been declared to be a magazine in law, as opposed to a "frame or receiver" being declared to be a firearm (ignoring those few firearms which have neither, of course, but this legislation was written by incompetents).

Blocking can be achieved by a variety of means, as explained in CFC literature previously issued. Pop rivets can be put through the body below the follower, or a vertical rod can be rivetted to the floor plate, for example. To anybody with a clue, these can be removed quite easily, or a rodless floor plate could be combined with an unpinned body. I have also seen magazines for sale, in shops, with tabs punched into the back and front of the body and bent inwards to block the follower. Of course, not even the most murderous psychopath could bend those back out of the way. The CFC literature, however, is not based upon anything actually stated in the legislation, so it has no legal standing.

Someday, somebody will be charged and will decide to test this little mess in court. It would make an interesting case.

Extremely little in that idiotic legislation makes any sense at all.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Just to add to the confusion.  An AR15 mag designed to go in a LAR-15 pistol can be pinned to 10 rounds, because it's a pistol mag and not a rifle mag despite being able to fit in both.

LAR-15 mags for the pistol are manufactured as ten round mags, for the pistol. Not pinned 30's, but only manufactured to hold ten. Being designed for the pistol, as imprinted on the magazine by the manufacturer, they are legal 10 round pistol mags that will fit the AR15 series of rifles.

 

[Robert0288]

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

/future AR owner

 

[Colin Parkinson]

LAR-15 mags for the pistol are manufactured as ten round mags, for the pistol. Not pinned 30's, but only manufactured to hold ten. Being designed for the pistol, as imprinted on the magazine by the manufacturer, they are legal 10 round pistol mags that will fit the AR15 series of rifles.

and the reverse is I cannot have a 10rd pistol mag marked "Storm" in my CX-4 Storm as it is a prohibited device, but I can have the same mag, unnamed in 10rds in my Storm. I just love explaining this to cops, who are desperately seeking some form of logic in all of it. 

I am trying to dig up the court case I mentioned earlier

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I of course just did my licence testing and am sending off the paperwork today.. I'm glad it's all so black and white.

 

[Container]

I just love explaining this to cops, who are desperately seeking some form of logic in all of it. 

With no luck I might add. Want to see a bunch of mind blown cops- start on a firearms laws debate.

We've really come up with an amazing goolash of nonsense.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

and the reverse is I cannot have a 10rd pistol mag marked "Storm" in my CX-4 Storm as it is a prohibited device, but I can have the same mag, unnamed in 10rds in my Storm. I just love explaining this to cops, who are desperately seeking some form of logic in all of it. 

I am trying to dig up the court case I mentioned earlier

Most RPAL and PAL holders have a hard enough time figuring out the laws. They are incomprehensible to the layman

This includes most cops. Most cops are not PAL or RPAL holders and have never had the training

Which explains why they know very little about storage, transportation or ammunition laws. They also have almost no understanding of firearms classification beyond a hunting shotgun and a handgun.

 

[Jarnhamar]

and the reverse is I cannot have a 10rd pistol mag marked "Storm" in my CX-4 Storm as it is a prohibited device

huh?  A magazine with Storm written on it is illegal?

 

[Container]

Most RPAL and PAL holders have a hard enough time figuring out the laws. They are incomprehensible to the layman

This includes most cops. Most cops are not PAL or RPAL holders and have never had the training

Which explains why they know very little about storage, transportation or ammunition laws. They also have almost no understanding of firearms classification beyond a hunting shotgun and a handgun.

I know the more black on it the more evil it is.  :blotto:

 

[J.J]

The "frame or receiver" is what legally constitutes the pistol. Everything else is an uncontrolled part. Those you can move without an ATT. The frame or receiver, no.

Magazines have no equivalent to a "frame or receiver" within the law. All components are uncontrolled parts when separated.

Unfortunately you are incorrect

http://www.bcjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8412:r-v-cancade-being-in-possession-of-a-not-fully-operational-illegal-cartridge-magazine-court-of-appeal-for-british-columbia&catid=385:criminal-08&Itemid=1648

Case law dictates that if the parts can be assembled they are considered prohibited. You have the magazine, but not the base plate or spring, the magazine is still considered prohibited as it is assumed you can reassemble it with the missing components.

The %3-5 of criminals ruin it for the legal/lawful owner.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

huh?  A magazine with Storm written on it is illegal?

A 10rd mag with Storm on it is a prohibited device, it must be pinned to 5 rds as it was "designed" for a semi-auto centre-fire rifle. The 92 pistol mag which is the same mag without the word "Storm" on it can be 10rds and can be used in the gun.
the only semi-auto rifle exempted is the Garand rifle.

 

[KevinB]

Unfortunately you are incorrect

http://www.bcjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8412:r-v-cancade-being-in-possession-of-a-not-fully-operational-illegal-cartridge-magazine-court-of-appeal-for-british-columbia&catid=385:criminal-08&Itemid=1648

Case law dictates that if the parts can be assembled they are considered prohibited. You have the magazine, but not the base plate or spring, the magazine is still considered prohibited as it is assumed you can reassemble it with the missing components.

The %3-5 of criminals ruin it for the legal/lawful owner.

Case law in Alberta says differently -- see McFarland AR10 case...

SCOC has not ruled, so in other provinces your gambling.

IIRC the most important aspect is Customer/Border Patrol will not allow import of pieces of mags, which removes the chicken or the egg about component parts.