Do we need Cadets? Should they be military/uniformed? (split from Trump administration 2024-2028)

[Colin Parkinson]

If you have a method of identifying Cadets who have a interest in joining the CAF, when they turn 16, they get sent to a base for part of the summer for a BMQ lite within their selected element. Likely 1-2 platoons per element needed. This gives them a idea if they want that lifestyle and the military can see if they are worth pursuing as recruits.

 

[ueo]

If you have a method of identifying Cadets who have a interest in joining the CAF, when they turn 16, they get sent to a base for part of the summer for a BMQ lite within their selected element. Likely 1-2 platoons per element needed. This gives them a idea if they want that lifestyle and the military can see if they are worth pursuing as recruits.

Nice idea, but where do the instructors come from?

 

[McG]

We have "BMQ lite" (and "BMQ plus") programs linked with indigenous out-reach and high school coops. Every one of these programs enrolls the trainees into the PRes where they are paid and covered in the event of training injury/accident. If you want people in the PRes, recruit them into the PRes.

 

[childs56]

If you have a method of identifying Cadets who have a interest in joining the CAF, when they turn 16, they get sent to a base for part of the summer for a BMQ lite within their selected element. Likely 1-2 platoons per element needed. This gives them a idea if they want that lifestyle and the military can see if they are worth pursuing as recruits.

Cadets already get a BMQ lite in their basic training. They learn to march, they learn to take care of uniforms, set up mod tents etc.
Then depending on their next steps they do pretty much everything required except the rifle shooting, grenade tossing aspect.
They learn discipline, self determination, team work, how to be away from home. ( I have seen more then a few adults in tears because they were away from home to long for training).

The Supp Res are not current members of the CAF. The Canadian Rangers

There could be some arguments to end the Cadet program at 16 to encourage more former cadets to join. Essitianlly create a natural transisition. For a lot of them this could mean they would be BMQ and trades qualified before university, which would make the time commitment more reasonable.

I get that this would make the program more dependent on the adult leadership, but this could create a culture shift in the cadets that could lead to more cadets join the CAF or create a bit more of an unofficial strong suggestion.

Then the Cadet program would loose many of their instructional staff (summer staff Cadets) and depth they have built over the years of training their Cadets. Relying on more volunteer staff which is already in short supply.

Those who want to join the Military already can at 16, some do.
Tell a Air Cadet who wants their glider wings or Power Wings they cant get them because you age out at sixteen, your only option is to leave the program and join the Military and not have any chance for a number of years to be trained to fly an airplane. Kind of looses its appeal for many as they loose that chance.
Or take away all ship/ boat deployments Cadets get to do, because you have to be sixteen or older to do them.
Or take that that Jump Course away that attracts many to the Army Cadets.
You essentially kill the programs highlights for Young Cadets to work towards.
It makes it worse because the draw to the Cadet program diminishes and the option is already there.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In my plan, you are not looking at the majority of senior Cadets going into a different stream, you still have enough Staff Cadets to run the summer camps, currently there are more applicants than slots for summer staff, which the Cadets get paid to do.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We have "BMQ lite" (and "BMQ plus") programs linked with indigenous out-reach and high school coops. Every one of these programs enrolls the trainees into the PRes where they are paid and covered in the event of training injury/accident. If you want people in the PRes, recruit them into the PRes.

Staff Cadets are paid and get coverage as well. Not sure exactly where the budget resides.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Those who want to join the Military already can at 16, some do.
Tell a Air Cadet who wants their glider wings or Power Wings they cant get them because you age out at sixteen, your only option is to leave the program and join the Military and not have any chance for a number of years to be trained to fly an airplane. Kind of looses its appeal for many as they loose that chance.
Or take away all ship/ boat deployments Cadets get to do, because you have to be sixteen or older to do them.
Or take that that Jump Course away that attracts many to the Army Cadets.
You essentially kill the programs highlights for Young Cadets to work towards.
It makes it worse because the draw to the Cadet program diminishes and the option is already there.

The main thing which draws most into Cadets is the fact it is a free program. Yeah the later stuff might drive a few to achieve it, but you can change it up and offer some alternative or just not.

If the main goal is to try and get troops out of it, then we shouldn’t have it as a competing program to actually serving. And if that isn’t the main goal why is this a military funded program?

 

[McG]

If the main goal is to try and get troops out of it, then we shouldn’t have it as a competing program to actually serving. And if that isn’t the main goal why is this a military funded program?

Government funds it. The military doesn't own the money.
Cadets is not a recruiting tool, but it does have a mandate to stimulate an interest in the CAF. That interest may translate into some recruits, but it also translates into aware and supportive of the CAF. Kill the program or give it away to another organization and the CAF looses that mechanism to build affinity ... along with the funding and a handful of other reciprocal benefits that disappear too.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The main thing which draws most into Cadets is the fact That their parents find out it is a free program. Yeah the later stuff might drive a few to achieve it, but you can change it up and offer some alternative or just not.

If the main goal is to try and get troops out of it, then we shouldn’t have it as a competing program to actually serving. And if that isn’t the main goal why is this a military funded program?

FIFY

 

[Furniture]

If you have a method of identifying Cadets who have a interest in joining the CAF, when they turn 16, they get sent to a base for part of the summer for a BMQ lite within their selected element. Likely 1-2 platoons per element needed. This gives them a idea if they want that lifestyle and the military can see if they are worth pursuing as recruits.

That likely would have pushed me out of cadets, and out of interest in the CAF.

I was raised in rural PEI, by rather flexible, but religious parents. If I spent my summer at 16 in the drunken shenninagins of a BMQ, My parents would have withdrawn consent, and I likely would have been repulsed by it. (They knew what the CIC were doing in the mess, but they didn't want their kid mixed into that sort of environment).

A few years later, graduated, and looking to make a go of the world on my own, the BMQ shenanigans weren't so shocking, and my parents had no say... 25+ years into this career, I'm glad I wasn't initiated until I was an adult and could make my own decisions.

 

[Svanen]

Probably the one that annoys me the most is them wearing the CD unmounted.

This begs the question whether CIC members should be awarded the CD. I would suggest not: they are not deployable and do not have the same terms of service or unlimited commitment that CF members (Reg, PRes) have.

That doesn't mean that CIC members shouldn't receive an official honour for long service. The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal, and the Cadet Forces Medal awarded by both the UK and New Zealand, are useful precedents.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect there are lot's of trades that don't see much deployment if at all. Does that mean someone who spent their CF career at firestations in Coldlake, Shilo and Trenton also be denied a CD? Currently CIC Officers are deemed as members of the CAF, until that change, then the CD is appropriate.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I suspect there are lot's of trades that don't see much deployment if at all. Does that mean someone who spent their CF career at firestations in Coldlake, Shilo and Trenton also be denied a CD? Currently CIC Officers are deemed as members of the CAF, until that change, then the CD is appropriate.

Do those trades all face potentially putting their lives in danger because they were ordered to do so?

CIC officers have a very different risk potential (i.e. none) than other CAF members. To say that they don’t deserve the same medals and decorations as other members who have that risk isn’t a stretch.

 

[Kilted]

This begs the question whether CIC members should be awarded the CD. I would suggest not: they are not deployable and do not have the same terms of service or unlimited commitment that CF members (Reg, PRes) have.

That doesn't mean that CIC members shouldn't receive an official honour for long service. The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal, and the Cadet Forces Medal awarded by both the UK and New Zealand, are useful precedents.

It wouldn't be without precedent to create a separate service medal for CIC. There should, however, have been provisions that allow those with prior service to count their first period of time with CIC towards the CD (or the next bar if they are short). Creating an honour like this might actually motivate some people at the end of their career to go CIC/COATS if there was a separate medal attached to it. There could potentially be a way to recognise time as a Civilian Instructor/Volunteer if they have prior service, or if they are later accepted to the CIC.

 

[childs56]

The main thing which draws most into Cadets is the fact it is a free program. Yeah the later stuff might drive a few to achieve it, but you can change it up and offer some alternative or just not.

If the main goal is to try and get troops out of it, then we shouldn’t have it as a competing program to actually serving. And if that isn’t the main goal why is this a military funded program?

The alternative is already there.
ANYONE can apply to join the Reserves at the age of SIXTEEN years old. What might stop a young person lets say who is sixteen who is in Cadets currently from doing so is the missed chance at getting your Jump Wings, or Power/ Glider Pilot License, Sail Instructor Qualification.

Your trying to make something out of nothing. The option is already there for a 16 year old to join the reserves.

What could be an interesting move is to offer a high school program for a person to join the reserves which carries through to College/ trade schools and ends up with tuition and or job experience towards their studies. That would take to much planning and resources to make effective and lets face it not everyone wants to join the Military in any capacity.
But if

 

[Eaglelord17]

The alternative is already there.
ANYONE can apply to join the Reserves at the age of SIXTEEN years old. What might stop a young person lets say who is sixteen who is in Cadets currently from doing so is the missed chance at getting your Jump Wings, or Power/ Glider Pilot License, Sail Instructor Qualification.

Your trying to make something out of nothing. The option is already there for a 16 year old to join the reserves.

What could be an interesting move is to offer a high school program for a person to join the reserves which carries through to College/ trade schools and ends up with tuition and or job experience towards their studies. That would take to much planning and resources to make effective and lets face it not everyone wants to join the Military in any capacity.
But if

Not everyone wants to join the military, but I don’t think it makes a ton of sense to actively fund/provide a alternative to joining the military from CAF funds for those potential recruits.

My point is what is the goal of Cadets? It is to aid in potentially recruiting people into the military? If so, it doesn’t make sense to have it be a alternative to actual service, which providing it as a option at 16-18 it becomes.

If not, why do we fund it out of CAF funds? We are essentially providing our own competition.

I also really don’t care if we provide jump wings, power glider, sail instructor, etc. training through Cadets. That isn’t why Cadets exists, it isn’t necessary for it to exist, and it ultimately doesn’t add anything to the CAF as none of those skills are mandatory/needed to serve.

They are cool things for youth to do, but their cost/benefit ratio is skewed to favour the cadet over anyone and anything else. I suspect those portions of the program suck up a ton of resources as well for the benefit of a few.

Cadets is a approximately 250 million dollar a year program coming out of the military budget, it is up to that program to prove that it provides more to the CAF than the 250 million would be spent elsewhere.

 

[FSTO]

Just throwing this out there. What would be tougher to get rid of (public outcry). The Cadet Movement, Snowbirds, or RMC?

 

[dapaterson]

Just throwing this out there. What would be tougher to get rid of (public outcry). The Cadet Movement, Snowbirds, or RMC?

Let's do the scientific experiment of getting rid of all three (plus the Skyhawks and Oriole), and watch for the reaction.

 

[YZT580]

Not everyone wants to join the military, but I don’t think it makes a ton of sense to actively fund/provide a alternative to joining the military from CAF funds for those potential recruits.

My point is what is the goal of Cadets? It is to aid in potentially recruiting people into the military? If so, it doesn’t make sense to have it be a alternative to actual service, which providing it as a option at 16-18 it becomes.

If not, why do we fund it out of CAF funds? We are essentially providing our own competition.

I also really don’t care if we provide jump wings, power glider, sail instructor, etc. training through Cadets. That isn’t why Cadets exists, it isn’t necessary for it to exist, and it ultimately doesn’t add anything to the CAF as none of those skills are mandatory/needed to serve.

They are cool things for youth to do, but their cost/benefit ratio is skewed to favour the cadet over anyone and anything else. I suspect those portions of the program suck up a ton of resources as well for the benefit of a few.

Cadets is a approximately 250 million dollar a year program coming out of the military budget, it is up to that program to prove that it provides more to the CAF than the 250 million would be spent elsewhere.

From an outside point of view, cadets was never intended to provide benefits to the CAF as a primary goal. That is a side benefit. Its purpose is to assist in the development of a mature Canadian citizen. Not that it is possible but it would be an interesting study to identify how many former cadets have been carrying Hamas signs and joining in the mass protests or quasi-riots in our major cities. I would be willing to bet that there aren't many. There are very few programmes for young people that contribute to healthy development and get kids involved outside of themselves so please don't stifle a good thing. If you did close it down for the savings the bean counters wouldn't transfer it to another programme they would simply delete it from the bottom line so no gain just gone.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It seems pretty much all Western and most other countries have a Cadet program. Shutting ours down would make us an outlier.

Cadets (youth program) - Wikipedia

Cadets: Vital to Canada’s Society and Military

Demyan Plakhov examines Canada's cadet program.

natoassociation.ca

https://iacea.com/

Cadet Nations

cadetclass.org