Do we need Cadets? Should they be military/uniformed? (split from Trump administration 2024-2028)

[RangerRay]

Just throwing this out there. What would be tougher to get rid of (public outcry). The Cadet Movement, Snowbirds, or RMC?

I don’t know what would be tougher, but I think RMC would be easiest. Most people don’t know it exists.

 

[FSTO]

From an outside point of view, cadets was never intended to provide benefits to the CAF as a primary goal. That is a side benefit. Its purpose is to assist in the development of a mature Canadian citizen. Not that it is possible but it would be an interesting study to identify how many former cadets have been carrying Hamas signs and joining in the mass protests or quasi-riots in our major cities. I would be willing to bet that there aren't many. There are very few programmes for young people that contribute to healthy development and get kids involved outside of themselves so please don't stifle a good thing. If you did close it down for the savings the bean counters wouldn't transfer it to another programme they would simply delete it from the bottom line so no gain just gone.

When I was XO at HMCS Queen in Regina, we had a sea cadet and an army cadet corps parading in our building. Just my observation, but at least 50% of the kids were first generation Canadians. If nothing else, these kids were exposed to an important part of the Canadian establishment and the way the world works within Canada. I think that alone shows the benefit of the program.

Maybe this funding for this should be a seperate line item of the feds? The CAF supports it, but the Feds fund it?

 

[Eaglelord17]

From an outside point of view, cadets was never intended to provide benefits to the CAF as a primary goal. That is a side benefit. Its purpose is to assist in the development of a mature Canadian citizen. Not that it is possible but it would be an interesting study to identify how many former cadets have been carrying Hamas signs and joining in the mass protests or quasi-riots in our major cities. I would be willing to bet that there aren't many. There are very few programmes for young people that contribute to healthy development and get kids involved outside of themselves so please don't stifle a good thing. If you did close it down for the savings the bean counters wouldn't transfer it to another programme they would simply delete it from the bottom line so no gain just gone.

Of course it was intended to prepare youth for military service, that is the origin of the movement, some of the early Cadet units actually fought in combat.

Now we can argue whether that is the modern goal, however if it isn’t I see no reason for it to be CAF administered. At that point it is a slightly more militaristic scout movement and can be managed by civilians completely separate from the CAF.

If the goal is still to prepare youth for the military then I would reform it to making that more a reality. When a conflict exists between military service and Cadets, military service wins.

My stance isn’t a all or nothing stance, rather questioning why we have a youth movement funded and maintained under the CAF which in some cases undermines the CAF. Either the program exists to benefit the CAF, or it shouldn’t be run under it.

That doesn’t mean I think the program should seize to exist, rather that the CAF has more important things to spend it’s time and money on and this would be better served as a completely separate organization.

 

[dapaterson]

Maybe this funding for this should be a seperate line item of the feds? The CAF supports it, but the Feds fund it?

Feds fund DND/CAF...

 

[FSTO]

Feds fund DND/CAF...

You know what I mean jackass

 

[dapaterson]

You know what I mean jackass

Moving the cadet movement out of DND/CAF would grow more HQs and thus higher cost for the same output.

 

[FSTO]

Moving the cadet movement out of DND/CAF would grow more HQs and thus higher cost for the same output.

I'm not advocating that COA. I said CAF still runs the movement as it does today, but its funding is a line item separate from CAF funding.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don’t know what would be tougher, but I think RMC would be easiest. Most people don’t know it exists.

Everytime I've seen someone look at the performance outcomes between RMC and ROTP graduates, they've found no difference in officer performance over a career. DEOs tend to join later in life, and a lot of SCRITs or succession management plans had time until CRA as a factor, so isn't necessarily apples to apples, but generally they performed similarly or better at comparable stages in their careers.

 

[YZT580]

Of course it was intended to prepare youth for military service, that is the origin of the movement, some of the early Cadet units actually fought in combat.

Now we can argue whether that is the modern goal, however if it isn’t I see no reason for it to be CAF administered. At that point it is a slightly more militaristic scout movement and can be managed by civilians completely separate from the CAF.

If the goal is still to prepare youth for the military then I would reform it to making that more a reality. When a conflict exists between military service and Cadets, military service wins.

My stance isn’t a all or nothing stance, rather questioning why we have a youth movement funded and maintained under the CAF which in some cases undermines the CAF. Either the program exists to benefit the CAF, or it shouldn’t be run under it.

That doesn’t mean I think the program should seize to exist, rather that the CAF has more important things to spend it’s time and money on and this would be better served as a completely separate organization.

They may have fought in combat but the programme was intended to foster maturity through military-style skills training and discipline. Originally they split off from the local drill association which operated in almost every village and trained for the local militia. It was decided way back in the 1870s that the youth shouldn't be subject to compulsory service as a result of their involvement in that drill association and a separate youth programme was developed. (From good ol' wilki) In 1879, the government authorized the creation of 74 "Association for Drill in Educational Institutions", drill associations that were open to male youth over the age of 14 and which did not entail active service in the military. The Riel Rebellion of 1885 motivated increased support to these youth drill associations. By 1887, they were called the cadet corps and were open to boys over the age of 12.<a href="Canadian Cadet Organizations - Wikipedia"><span><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></span></a>

Here is what the government web pages say: The Cadet Program provides opportunities for youth to gain valuable knowledge and skills that build confidence and help pave the way in a transition to adulthood. Cadets engage in varied and unique experiences, while developing competencies in leadership, citizenship, and physical and mental fitness. Offering positive youth development programs, sea, land and air cadet corps and squadrons are in communities across Canada.
Instill Canadian Military Values – Cadet Program training, direction, decision making, and behaviour are guided by ethics and values of the Canadian military. Values include loyalty, integrity, courage, inclusion, excellence and accountability. Cadets embrace and embody these values.
Develop Citizenship, Leadership, and Fitness – The Cadet Program offers cadets opportunities to develop skills and knowledge that: enable them to positively contribute as leaders in Canadian society, instill a lifelong appreciation of health and fitness, and support successful transitions to adulthood.

While it is hoped that the programme will lead to enlistment, as you can see, that isn't its primary goal. In fact, it isn't mentioned at all under goals. Perhaps it is just hoped that the people in or who have worn, the uniform are the best people to provide leadership training.

 

[Navy_Pete]

From a practical perspective, I don't really care if Cadets join the CAF at all; it's an excellent youth program to keep them busy and learn new skills, particularly where they don't have to worry about the cost of anything. It's available in communities where Scouts/Guides isn't even a thing, but even where they are I think attracts kids that wouldn't get into it otherwise, and gives them opportunities to do things like the summer camp they never would be able to otherwise.

Not a program that all kids are interested in, but for some kids in particular, it's a huge lifeline and I think exactly the kind of thing governments should be spending money on. I'd be pretty happy as a taxpayer if they supported other similar programs at a federal level so that parent's financial situations doesn't limit participation.

Also, will grind my axe again and agree with @dapaterson that HMCS Oriole should be at the front of the line for things to cut if we're scaling back on things like that.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If you are going to have a sail training vessel, do it right. Something bigger, steel hull, 120-140', able to carry more people and go further and is brigantine rigged.

 

[Haggis]

Not a program that all kids are interested in, but for some kids in particular, it's a huge lifeline and I think exactly the kind of thing governments should be spending money on. I'd be pretty happy as a taxpayer if they supported other similar programs at a federal level so that parent's financial situations doesn't limit participation.

My girls did Cadets. Both later picked other, far more expensive hobbies much to my dismay, but they both benefitted from the Cadet experience. My son went straight to the Army Reserve without even telling mom or dad. Did 10 years then left for a diferent career in which he is doing very well.

When my kids were in Cadets they met others from various socio-economic backgrounds across the spectrum. I'm sure that helped them to grow up as well adjusted adults.

My eldest grandkids never tried Cadets and the younger ones are into sports and too young for Cadets at this point. They skate better than I ever could.

 

[dapaterson]

If you are going to have a sail training vessel, do it right. Something bigger, steel hull, 120-140', able to carry more people and go further and is brigantine rigged.

Bluenose?