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Dress During Final Release Appt

PuckChaser

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No, I am talking having someone wear DEUs to tend their daily, non-operational tasks.
I honestly didn't know throwing on 3B was a chore. Took me 10 minutes a day when I was orderly for a Courts Martial to get myself sorted out for the next day, I spend about the same amount of time picking out civvies. Yeah, it means you can't just throw on your CADPAT pyjamas or your flight suit but is that the hill to die on? Businesses have dress codes, why should the CAF be any different?
 

SupersonicMax

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I honestly didn't know throwing on 3B was a chore. Took me 10 minutes a day when I was orderly for a Courts Martial to get myself sorted out for the next day, I spend about the same amount of time picking out civvies. Yeah, it means you can't just throw on your CADPAT pyjamas or your flight suit but is that the hill to die on? Businesses have dress codes, why should the CAF be any different?
When your dress of the day is operational dress, wearing a DEU can be a punishment not because of how long it takes to get ready but rather, for being singled out for having messed up.
 

ballz

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I'll be wearing a suit every day in my new career, so spare me about how I'm just too much of a slob to dress well (which is the insinuation being made my the "pro-DEU" camp). And for that matter, I actually like men's fashion / wearing business attire including suits, blazers, collared shirts, ties, etc.

Our DEUs are cheap, hot, uncomfortable, and bunch of other unpleasant things. I may like fashion but 1. I'm a diva and 2. I'm not stupid, any fool can suffer. Hence why wearing them can be a "chore" and at best, making someone wear them just to go see a clerk for 5 five minutes of paperwork is just jerking them around.

Edit because I'm sure I typed this and must have accidentally deleted it.
And as pointed out by Max, they are still used as a punishment to both single you out and just make your day (or week) uncomfortable, hence why at worse it could be ostracizing.

My personal take is that if wearing a uniform is too much hassle/effort on release, perhaps you should have released a few years earlier... before wearing the uniform was too much of a chore.

Wish I had you around for advice 4 years ago.
 
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Bruce Monkhouse

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Interesting conversation....I know when I released over 30 years ago I must have had 'work dress' to wear around as I worked pretty much to my last day. In fact the BSM phoned the Sig shop and called me over to inform me he had a tasking for me the next week, [WO Gimpel and my troop were on an 'adventure training' bicycle trip] and I had to tell him I'd be a civy and almost back in Ontario by next week.
Anyways, I had only been issued the new DEU 'tans' a few weeks before and I know they never touched my skin.
 

Kat Stevens

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Troops hate to wear DEU and see it as punishment because
a) it’s uncomfortable
b) it’s high maintenance, and
c) it’s expensive to replace. Oh, and
d) the boots suck

That said, I didn’t mind wearing it when it was required, parades and whatnot. It didn’t bother me to wear it for final out routine, either.
 

Furniture

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Wish I had you around for advice 4 years ago.
lol I'm sure...

When I was graduating my 6a back in '08 the course WO came in and told the students he was releasing, and the reason was that he could no longer stand putting on the uniform every day. He told all of us that one day it would happen to us as well, and when that day comes we should release. That stuck with me, and it's something I have passed on to all of the people who have worked for me since.

EDIT: I also agree 100% on the DEU needing updating and improvement. They are frankly embarrassing compared to even relatively inexpensive comparable civilian clothing.
 

ballz

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lol I'm sure...

When I was graduating my 6a back in '08 the course WO came in and told the students he was releasing, and the reason was that he could no longer stand putting on the uniform every day. He told all of us that one day it would happen to us as well, and when that day comes we should release. That stuck with me, and it's something I have passed on to all of the people who have worked for me since.

Wasn't kidding! Was on my way out and the CAF offered me an easy road and I figured I could grind it out for another 3 years (which turned into four because of CAF bureaucracy). Of course, the easy road is rarely the right choice and I genuinely regret taking this route, thankfully I'm almost on the other end of it now.
 

SupersonicMax

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lol I'm sure...

When I was graduating my 6a back in '08 the course WO came in and told the students he was releasing, and the reason was that he could no longer stand putting on the uniform every day. He told all of us that one day it would happen to us as well, and when that day comes we should release. That stuck with me, and it's something I have passed on to all of the people who have worked for me since.

EDIT: I also agree 100% on the DEU needing updating and improvement. They are frankly embarrassing compared to even relatively inexpensive comparable civilian clothing.
I am pretty sure your WO wasn’t speaking literally but figuratively!
 

FJAG

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Unless he was referring to Garrison Dress, of course...
Okay. I'll admit it. I'm one of those guys who liked Garrison dress. It was a HUGE improvement over work dress.

I also quite liked the tan DEU (notwithstanding we wore black shoes and green hats with it.) The summer dress version was quite nice and could look quite sharp.

Never did like the green DEUs (or its almost identical green predecessor). Always found them a) uncomfortable and b) looking like a 1940's Toronto bus driver.

20130114-Uniforms-Drivers.jpg


🍻
 

ModlrMike

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My last appointment on the day was with the CO and RSM who bade me farewell. It only seemed right that on my last day in uniform (which wasn't my last day of service*), that I actually wore my uniform. I can't say that I was the least bit put out by this. It seemed entirely appropriate to me. That being said, if it's not your thing, and there's no mandate to do it, choose whatever.

*nevermind the part about me being PRes now
 

BurmaShave

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Really? It's dress of the day in naval shore units.

Maybe I'm biased, but your guys' 3s/1As look waaaay better than the RCAF ones.

Also, DEUs as punishment is partially a pilot quirk. The schools use it a lot as a "you messed up", so being the only guy in DEU feels like a screwup (parades etc are different). The same goes for CADPAT; you have to turn in your flying kit within 48 hours if you wash out, so I have a visceral "what happened?!?" when I see a pilot in CADPAT, even though he just spilled pasta sauce on his only flightsuit and had to improvise.
 

Furniture

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I am pretty sure your WO wasn’t speaking literally but figuratively!
Very true, we've all had a day or 300 in our careers when putting on the uniform was a chore!

It was pretty solid advice in my opinion though, when you're at the stage of just collecting pay it's time to go.
 

OldSolduer

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The Army tan uniform was very good for what it was intended but the Army Commander at the time decided that the DEU Rifle Green was the only dress uniform that would be issued to Army personnel. Garrison dress was an abomination and a huge waste of money.
 

Blackadder1916

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The Army tan uniform was very good for what it was intended but the Army Commander at the time decided that the DEU Rifle Green was the only dress uniform that would be issued to Army personnel. Garrison dress was an abomination and a huge waste of money.

What the then CLS said about uniforms to the Commons defence committee in 1997 was:

The Chairman: And comment on the uniform.

LGen W.C. Leach: I have every intention to comment on the uniform.

You might notice that my body is shaped the way it is. It's not long and thin; it's a little bit shorter and a little bit broader, and I've been in some of those situations myself.

However, if I want to go back a couple of years and look at what our soldiers said about uniforms, our soldiers said quit screwing us around, we don't need a lot of different uniforms, we just need the basic uniforms and let's make some decisions and get on with life. The soldiers said there are two uniforms that are important if you're a soldier, and one is combat clothing; get it for us, get the right amount, get the right type, because when we're on the battlefield we want to feel comfortable operationally, comfortable personally, and then morale will be okay. We're addressing that.

The second issue from the soldiers is why is it that we have this green uniform, which is technically called rifle green and which the soldiers like, and the tan uniform, which you described quite well—I would probably be a little ruder and cruder—what people look like in it. So we made a decision. I've made a decision. I've been led to believe by the Chief of the Defence Staff that he agrees with my decision and would be making it happen. The army is going to give the soldiers what they want. There are going to be two uniforms in the army in the future, and they're going to be combat and this uniform, the green. We are going to stop swapping back and forth. We are going to stop wearing a uniform in the summer that doesn't breathe and makes you like a bag of you know what and is just all-round uncomfortable.

I don't know, I may have pre-empted the opportunities of the minister to say yes or no. But the fact is the soldiers said all these other things are important, but you are absolutely right, dress is critical; why don't you make some decisions and get on with life. We've made them. It's happening. I would expect that as early as this summer you probably aren't going to see people walking around in tan uniforms the way they have in the past. When you tell the soldiers in Bosnia, and they say what are you doing about my dress, and we tell them, even though it's not public yet, they say thank you.
 

rmc_wannabe

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[Fashionista Tangent]

I think the problem with at least Army DEU is that we took something that was poorly designed to fill one specific need and re-rolled it into something completely different. As is tradition for most of the Canadian Army.

The cut and style of DEU is more akin to a lounge suit (perfect for office wear) than it is to a military parade uniform. Army DEU is heavy wool, a dark colour that attracts sunlight, and does not move well when doing rifle drill or other kinds of "Public Duties" stuff.

Operational Dress is always something that will need tweaking and tuning to advance with technology and the nature of warfare. Dress uniform is timeless (or should be at least). Take the USMC or the Brigade of Guards in the UK; their operational dress has moved faster and more efficiently in adapting to technological advances (Plate carriers, MOLLE, camouflage etc.) but no one is trying to "improve" their parade uniforms because they are a signature look of a Marine or member of the Queen's Guard.

DEU was great for 40 years ago. It hasn't adapted to the reality of the times. You want office dress? Sure, fine. Make it an optional item for folks working at NDHQ. Most people in the Army wear DEUs twice a year, three times if their is a Charge of Command Parade. I'd rather wear Patrols or someting similar that look like a military uniform more than a cheap suit off the rack at Moore's.

If you want people to not feel like its a drag to wear the uniform, make it either comfortable or attractive to wear it.
[/Fashioinista Tangent]
 

PMedMoe

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The Army tan uniform was very good for what it was intended but the Army Commander at the time decided that the DEU Rifle Green was the only dress uniform that would be issued to Army personnel. Garrison dress was an abomination and a huge waste of money.
And promised a "summer weight" uniform. Has that materialized yet? Nope, let's worry about executive curls and morale patches instead. :rolleyes:
 

FJAG

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What the then CLS said about uniforms to the Commons defence committee in 1997 was:

... look at what our soldiers said about uniforms, our soldiers said quit screwing us around, we don't need a lot of different uniforms, ...
The second issue from the soldiers is why is it that we have this green uniform, which is technically called rifle green and which the soldiers like, and the tan uniform, which you described quite well—I would probably be a little ruder and cruder—what people look like in it. So we made a decision. I've made a decision. ... The army is going to give the soldiers what they want. ... We are going to stop wearing a uniform in the summer that doesn't breathe and makes you like a bag of you know what and is just all-round uncomfortable.
No one asked me or the people I worked with.

Thanks for making my summer dress comfortable by giving me a winter weight uniform that I had to wear year round.

I still believe we lost the tan uniform because it didn't have the same "slimming effect" on him that the dark uniform had and he looked like a bag of $%^& in it.

:giggle:
 

PuckChaser

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When your dress of the day is operational dress, wearing a DEU can be a punishment not because of how long it takes to get ready but rather, for being singled out for having messed up.

Maybe I'm biased, but your guys' 3s/1As look waaaay better than the RCAF ones.

Also, DEUs as punishment is partially a pilot quirk. The schools use it a lot as a "you messed up", so being the only guy in DEU feels like a screwup (parades etc are different). The same goes for CADPAT; you have to turn in your flying kit within 48 hours if you wash out, so I have a visceral "what happened?!?" when I see a pilot in CADPAT, even though he just spilled pasta sauce on his only flightsuit and had to improvise.

This is the context I was missing on your statements, SSM. Makes much more sense to me why you'd feel that way about the DEU. I'd also propose to you the problem isn't with the DEU, it's how it's being utilized and the solution isn't less DEU but more of it when appropriate.

And just to circle back to the whole out clearance thing, if someone in CADPAT got offended I wasn't in DEU for a clearance appointment, they'd be politely told to pound sand. There's nothing wrong with DEU for clearances, if the people you're clearing in/out from are also wearing it. If they're wearing Operational Dress (and you've turned that in), nothing wrong with business casual to mirror the professional environment you're in.
 

dapaterson

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Frankly, if they're in CADPAT, you should wear cargo pants with an oversized shirt and Doc Martens.
 
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