Driving Backup Signals

[Fishbone Jones]

It really doesn't seem like it's worth the panty bunching.

There's a number of hand signs that overlap between crane signals and ground guiding signals...

The crossed arms signal for stop came into common use because, particularly at night, or when you're wearing camouflage clothing in the woods, there was a lack of clarity between stop, forward, and backward...

If there's one sign you absolutely want clear, it's stop, there should be absolutely no ambiguity between stop and any other signal.

I don't have the military crane hand signs here, but if they're using normal crane hand signs, crossed arms doesn't mean a thing, the closest would be crossed palms with thumbs interlocked for "dog all" (stop for a crane actually looking very much like a chane direction left hand sign for ground guiding)

Meanwhile, far more important that getting upset over new manuals is the clarity of communication between driver and ground guide. If a signal is unclear, stop.

Ultimately it's the driver who's responsible for the vehicle

It's actually the guide that's responsible should something happen while the vehicle is being moved under his command.

 

[chrisf]

It's actually the guide that's responsible should something happen while the vehicle is being moved under his command.

Citation needed.

It's the driver with the foot on the gas or the brake, if they can't see, or if the signals are unclear, it's absolutely their responsibility to stop.

 

[George Wallace]

Citation needed.

It's the driver with the foot on the gas or the brake, if they can't see, or if the signals are unclear, it's absolutely their responsibility to stop.

Absolutely true, if the signals are unclear or they lose sight of the Ground Guide, it is the driver's responsibility to stop.

At the same time, if the Driver is paying close attention to the Ground Guide, keeping them in sight at all times, and the Ground Guide directs the Driver into/onto/or even off (think rail car, loading ramp or bridge) an object that the Driver can not see, it is the Ground Guide who is responsible.

Responsibility can go both ways, and an investigation would discover who is really at fault.  Any Regulation that specifically points to the Driver over the Ground Guide, or the Ground Guide over the Driver, as being solely responsible for any accident, is faulty.

 

[mariomike]

Absolutely true, if the signals are unclear or they lose sight of the Ground Guide, it is the driver's responsibility to stop.

At the same time, if the Driver is paying close attention to the Ground Guide, keeping them in sight at all times, and the Ground Guide directs the Driver into/onto/or even off (think rail car, loading ramp or bridge) an object that the Driver can not see, it is the Ground Guide who is responsible.

Responsibility can go both ways, and an investigation would discover who is really at fault.  Any Regulation that specifically points to the Driver over the Ground Guide, or the Ground Guide over the Driver, as being solely responsible for any accident, is faulty.

As a former MSE-Op ( Reserve ), I find this an interesting discussion.

For what it is worth, I read this,

Driver Corner Part 1
"Oh, and by the way, even if you, as the driver, hit something while backing up with the use of a ground guide...you are responsible!"
http://army.ca/forums/threads/51794/post-479430.html#msg479430

 

[cupper]

Regardless of all else, the driver needs to be aware of what is around him. That's why a walk around or circle check is a must before even getting into the vehicle. This would be the time to discuss the maneuver with the ground guides, including signals.

 

[CountDC]

Did a quick search online and the signal they show for crane stop is left arm straight out to the side with palms down.  Most reflect swinging back and forth also per attached.