Drug use by Iraqi Insurgents

[Colin Parkinson]

Enzo
A friend of mine has been trying to flog the 6.8mm AR to the Malaysian military. A number of specialists units over there did pick it up. The 6,8 does seem to resolve some of the criticism of the 5.56 round. Any word back from field operators using it as to their opinion yet?

Let us not forget the Somali mess who regularly consume Khat. I suspect that Khat was a significant factor in helping the US retrieve their guys, a little difficult to maintain discipline and tactical manoeuvre with kids semi-high on drugs.

There was also a good interview with one of the girls belonging to the Tiger’s suicide squad in Sri Lanka. It is clear that the mental conditioning is ongoing to ensure that they will attack when required. Also I believe that some Iraqis suicide bombers have been found to have radio controlled vests so their handlers can denote the vest if the bomber fails to do so. The Pal’s have also used women that have been “dishonoured” as a source of bombers, convincing them that they can wipe the slate clean with their death. 

 

[Enzo]

As posted above, the use of drugs for some combatants goes back before Jesus was in diapers. Of course, this could simply be propaganda by the ministry of misinformation, but I prefer to believe the history books (albeit written by the winners of course).

Psychological and physiological training is a factor for any fighting force. Everyone has their preferred tactics. We phased out the "beatings" a long time ago, but so many others may choose to employ whatever they wish. Morals to the side. So why the disbelief by some that providing drugs to combatants is solely propaganda?

Infidel - 10" to ~400m, I'm impressed. I like to think I'm good, but that's something I've yet to try. ;D

 

[TCBF]

"Infidel - 10" to ~400m, I'm impressed. I like to think I'm good, but that's something I've yet to try."

- Of course, if they legalized pistol hunting in Canada, we could join the Army having experienced 400m shots with 10" (and less) barrels.  Since the communists in Ottawa have banned short barreled pistols, this is obviously what they have in mind.

 

[1feral1]

.  It sounded like the usual U.S. military propaganda designed to demonize and dehumanize the enemy, familiar to those who were fed a steady diet of same after the American invasion of Southeast Asia. 

Hey, I think I smell a hidden 'political' agenda here???

Why is all this VN quotes, references and pics coming up anyways? Don't go comparing that war to this one, as this one effects you (and me), and all westerners. I am suprised you have not brought the word OIL into your one sided discussions.

Name me a war that did not use this dehumanising 'technique'. Look at some of the propaganda posters from Canada (and her allies) against the Germans in both world wars, plus the Japanese threat too. You should see some of the Australian posters. At the end of the day, 'home fires' propganda aided in the overall war effort to boost production and keep the public pumped, while letting the lads at the pointy end know back home are fighting too.

Think too of names of the enemy over the wars. Huns, Jerry, Nips, Charlie, Gooks, Skinnys, Matchstickmen, etc. even the targets we shoot are human-like. The running Russian, Fig11's, 12/59's, machinegunners, etc. We are not out there for the olymic medal, are we.

We all know the first casualty in war is always the truth. The only thing that changes over time is the technology, but at the end of the day life at the pointy end is still that. There is NO glory in death, dying and killing.

Stoned or not, if 'Achmed' is doing drugs to muster up some testosterone, I don't really care, either way, wpn in hand, running towards or away, he's gonna be biting the brass tylenol in any allied soldier's 'centre' of mass - not head shot  : sighting picture, and that includes mine!

War is truly a four lettered word, but sometimes its a necessity to preseve peace and our way of life! If you got a cancer, you don't feed it, you cut it out quicksmart before it gets you. Right now there are arseholes in your own country who are hellbent on killing you and others. If you deny that, you again are not with it. You'd think with 62yrs behind you, you'd know better. I am not no snotty nosed 17yr old mate, I'll be 47 this year, and I do have military experience as you openly admit you do not have.

Okay coachron, time to put out the bong, and finish that warm beer. Feel free to your head from the sand now, and gag down a DIRTYgreat big reality tablet.

Next thing you'll be posting a quote from a John Lennon song. Oops, you done that already.

My thoughts,

Wes

 

[TCBF]

Of course, sometimes a headshot IS 'center of visible mass', that's why we can all group four inches at a hundred meters, right?



Tom

 

[KevinB]

;D

 

[Kal]

But in a pinch at 4x the 10" can drop stuff at ~400m

All from shooting from a helicopter, into a moving car (of the opposite direction), raining, in the dark, with gail force winds, and with an unsupported, off-hand shot...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Enzo:  I am a bit new to some of the terminology you use:  shot placement, "stopping power,"  and soft targets, i.e. humans.  Please develop those themes just a bit.  I take it that a larger calibre weapon is recommended which with careful placement of the shot will deliver more stopping power to the soft target, i.e., the human, drugged or undrugged.  Speaking of the drugs, I had the same reaction as C and P to the U.S. Marines contention that the enemy fights while drugged.  It sounded like the usual U.S. military propaganda designed to demonize and dehumanize the enemy, familiar to those who were fed a steady diet of same after the American invasion of Southeast Asia.  Perhaps you can point to some evidence that consuming drugs of one kind or another will make the enemy harder to stop.  I would have assumed that bullets will tear apart the flesh of the drugged no less remorselessly than the undrugged.  But it is probably beside the point.

The documentary focused as it should on the huge costs suffered by the marines and their families from Columbus, Ohio who, even if they did arrive home safely from Iraq, are left with deep wounds of one kind or another. I detected no celebration or enjoyment on the part of those who shot dead the Iraqi insurgent on drugs.  I think John Lennon got it about right:  Give Peace a Chance!  Bring em home!


/quote]

Perhaps you should read some the quotes from Giap that led the NVA for many years. He is quoted as saying something to the effect: “It doesn’t matter how many people we lose, a 100,000 people on the earth die each minute, so if I lose 1,000, 10,000 or 100,000 it does not matter” The North Vietnamese leaders where not concerned about causality rates, only about achieving victory at any cost. They also lost no time in fighting a decade long war with the Chinese as soon as they had conquered South Vietnam (after breaking a cease fire agreement)

One can make a lot of good arguments about the whether the US should have allowed itself to be drawn into SE Asia by FRANCE so as to maintain their colonial possession (France lost 90,000 men, despite having less troops in the country than the US who lost 58,000) But this whole thing of demonizing the enemy is pretty standard fare. I have sat in mosques in Malaysia in November 2001 while they celebrated the deaths of 3,000 innocents and promoted the killing of Infidels (even though it is not encouraged by the Koran)

I have heard the same crap spewed out in mosques here in Vancouver.

The terrorists in Iraq are running a terror campaign directed against civilian targets mainly. The Taliban have been doing the same, since when does the Geneva convention allow for the slow beheading of captives and of civilians? It’s not much of a stretch to demonize people who will stoop to that level. Will the Taliban commanders arrest and convict any of their troops that massacre civilians? Not likely because anyone who disagrees with them is considered sub-human.  

We gave peace a chance in Afgahnistan, the taliban shot woman in the head, beat kids for flying kites and encouraged and supported people to fly airplanes into buildings.

We gave peace a chance in Iraq, Saddam murdered Kurds and Shiites while the world watched, he starved his people while he built palaces, he lied constantly to the UN inspectors, and blocked ever attempt to resolve things peacefully. He bought off members of the UN in the Oil for food program. You wanted the people of Iraq to suffer under him and his sons for another 20-30 years?

 

[Enzo]

Infidel - Seems to me that you've zeroed in on the situation eh?  :soldier:

Anyone else notice that there hasn't been a rebuttal from Ron as of yet?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Let's not troll. You've made good observations. Leave it there.

 

[Enzo]

Let's not troll. You've made good observations. Leave it there.

Seen. I'll keep myself sorted.

 

[Good2Golf]

...As far as the drug use goes - who cares -- two in the heart, one in the mind  ;D 

Inf-6, an especially poignant quote, knowing the "quotee". 

Cheers,
Duey

 

[TCBF]

So their kids are as high as our kids...  NEXT!