Dumbing down the population of Ontario.

[George Wallace]

Here we go again.....Ontario Teachers Strike - 20 Apr 2015.

Yet another Union under the Ontario Liberal wings.  Of course we will see the Ontario Government take a initial stance of defiance for optics to appease the voting public, but cave in to appease the Union.

And we wonder why our kids are not getting the educations they actually need.

 

[OldSolduer]

Not just in Ontario.

I've heard that many people - professional educators etc - want to put an end to final exams, so as not to "pressure" students to perform.

Many twenty and thirty somethings can't name the premier of their province but they know what Kim Kardashian and Kanye West (waste of rations) are up to.

 

[runormal]

Hopefully this time they actually strike against the government by not doing things like standardized testing and leave the students out of it for once. 

It really irked me when I was  a student then and we lost our imax trip back in 2005 that we "earned" (which was a pretty big deal at the time especially growing up in rural southwestern ontario). I'm not sure how you gather public support by throwing kids in the middle of it?  Better yet let's try to make it an "essential  service"  so that they can't strike and that students studies don't get thrown in the cross fire.

What pisses me further is that I'd love to become a teacher and the few children that I've tutored have said  I should try  for it. But the problem is based on experience  talking to recent graduates it is pretty grim for job prospects . Furthermore it is an extra two years of debt for something with little transferability if you don't get it.  Not to mention the opportunity cost of not working for all of those years..

If that job is so bad quit,  and let the people who actually want to teach,  teach.  >

 

[mariomike]

Better yet let's try to make it an "essential  service"  so that they can't strike and that students studies don't get thrown in the cross fire.

Ontario teachers did not always have the right to strike.

"Prior to 1975 and the passage of the School Boards and Teachers Collective Negotiations Act (Bill 100) teachers’ unions in Ontario did not have the right to legally strike."
http://www.justlabour.yorku.ca/volume14/pdfs/ss_02_hanson_press.pdf

 

[a_majoor]

This sort of thing is driving home schooling, private schools, religious schools and (in jurisdictions where possible) charter schools, as parents remove their children from public schools so they can get an actual education.

And this is not an exaggeration. I had my children in a Montessori School until tuition became too much, and on the first day of grade six my daughter came home nearly in tears. "Dad; we learned that in grade 4..." was her comment on the first day of public school. Since the school has my money regardless of what they do (unlike a private school, where I am a customer and they treat me as such), they have no incentive to change either. At the same school, I spoke to the principle in great detail about my son, who has special needs, but was doing grade 3 work in Casa since he had completed the grade 2 work by the first semester. The principl'e response was to tell me about their hot breakfast program. I might as well have spoken to the wall (and when trouble started because they refused to listen to what I had told them or act on the suggestions I gave... :rage

The only feasible solution now is to break the State monopoly on schooling. Vouchers parents can use for schools of their choice are perhaps the simplest solution, parental Charter schools using State funding have also done well in the real world.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's too late for Ontario. Any hope I had that there was any intelligence within the 905 belt went out the window last election. Mind, I hold the same distain for the idiots around here that turned the whole area completely orange.

With my daughter and her family moving back from Alberta, one of the big things is going to be where my grandson starts his formal education. I've already ruled out public and separate schools and once I show them the stats, it doubt it'll be on their list of options either.

 

[a_majoor]

My own suggestion would be Montessori education, but there are lots of alternatives for the determined parents. Best of luck.

 

[blacktriangle]

I feel for all you parents out there, and I feel for myself as a taxpayer.

Our school system is far too oriented towards prepping kids to pursue questionable Arts degrees, rather than training them in a skill or preparing them to pursue educations with better job prospects (engineering, health sciences etc)

(Sorry to all the arts grads out there - I share your pain)

 

[KerryBlue]

It's too late for Ontario. Any hope I had that there was any intelligence within the 905 belt went out the window last election. Mind, I hold the same distain for the idiots around here that turned the whole area completely orange.

With my daughter and her family moving back from Alberta, one of the big things is going to be where my grandson starts his formal education. I've already ruled out public and separate schools and once I show them the stats, it doubt it'll be on their list of options either.

If in Toronto I would suggest St. Michael's College School. Great private school, good student support, excellent athletics. Grades 7-12.

 

[runormal]

I feel for all you parents out there, and I feel for myself as a taxpayer.

Our school system is far too oriented towards prepping kids to pursue questionable Arts degrees, rather than training them in a skill or preparing them to pursue educations with better job prospects (engineering, health sciences etc)

(Sorry to all the arts grads out there - I share your pain)

At my school the attitude was "JUST GET A DEGREE, it doesn't matter what it is in." You have guidance counselors/teachers who have no idea how the real world works and think everything runs the same way it did when they graduated. Even at my university the intake for arts + social sciences was well over 40% of all enrollments.

I agree with your comment regarding lack of science/math requirements. Unless you know want to go into some sort of Science/Engineering degree there is no reason to take said courses and thus lower your average, especially if you want to graduate within four years.

The curriculum needs a complete overhaul, its complete and absolute crap. You should need to take at least two sciences in grade 11 and at least 1 in grade 12. You should also be required to graduate with grade 12 math. Currently you only need science up to grade 10 and math up to grade 11. No one going to university should be going without at least a one 4U science credit and the 4U Calc credit. This gives students more options, because once you get to school and realize "well crap I never took Physics/Chemistry/Calculus I can't switch into engineering because it will put me back at least one year and cost me money that I don't have, well I might as well just get that History degree". Furthermore I think a 5th year of high-school should be mandatory, it gives students another year to prepare for school both mentally and financially.

That being said we also need to limit the amount of people going to University because if everyone goes to school to be a engineer/doctor/scientist well then they won't have jobs either. Right now it seems that the undegrad is the new highschool which is pointless.

Of course it isn't going to be that easy, you need to find an increased amount of high school teachers in the math and science fields in some of these streams it is hard enough to find teachers, let alone good teachers. You also need to be able to accommodate another year of students with not only space but support staff etc.

 

[McG]

I don't agree. High schools do not need to prepare every student for entering a science or engineering program. Instead, we need to do a better job of getting more students to colleges as opposed to over weighting BAs in universities.  http://army.ca/forums/threads/20359/post-1360091.html#msg1360091

As to the teachers' strike begining in five days, I believe teachers should have the right to strike but they should be obligated to start those strikes in July or the first two weeks of August.  If the strike is not resolved by the Labour Day weekend, then it can carry on, eating away at the school year.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Maybe all those Ontario whiners should have send their kids to school in full French.  I have zero complaints about the level of education my kids received. :worms:  Hehehe

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Maybe all those Ontario whiners should have send their kids to school in full French.  I have zero complaints about the level of education my kids received. :worms:  Hehehe

 

[a_majoor]

At my school the attitude was "JUST GET A DEGREE, it doesn't matter what it is in." You have guidance counselors/teachers who have no idea how the real world works and think everything runs the same way it did when they graduated. Even at my university the intake for arts + social sciences was well over 40% of all enrollments.

I agree with your comment regarding lack of science/math requirements. Unless you know want to go into some sort of Science/Engineering degree there is no reason to take said courses and thus lower your average, especially if you want to graduate within four years.

The curriculum needs a complete overhaul, its complete and absolute crap. You should need to take at least two sciences in grade 11 and at least 1 in grade 12. You should also be required to graduate with grade 12 math. Currently you only need science up to grade 10 and math up to grade 11. No one going to university should be going without at least a one 4U science credit and the 4U Calc credit. This gives students more options, because once you get to school and realize "well crap I never took Physics/Chemistry/Calculus I can't switch into engineering because it will put me back at least one year and cost me money that I don't have, well I might as well just get that History degree". Furthermore I think a 5th year of high-school should be mandatory, it gives students another year to prepare for school both mentally and financially.

That being said we also need to limit the amount of people going to University because if everyone goes to school to be a engineer/doctor/scientist well then they won't have jobs either. Right now it seems that the undegrad is the new highschool which is pointless.

Of course it isn't going to be that easy, you need to find an increased amount of high school teachers in the math and science fields in some of these streams it is hard enough to find teachers, let alone good teachers. You also need to be able to accommodate another year of students with not only space but support staff etc.

Remember one of the reasons students don't "have" to take courses like this is McGuinty wanted to ensure more Ontario High School students graduated. Increasing the rigour of courses and standards of instruction, oddly, was not seen as the preferred COA for this....