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Economic Warfare vs the West ???

54/102 CEF

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A link of interest - I think its crackpot stuff but economic warfare is a well known part of a strategic bag of tricks against an opponent.

Have a look - will follow along - any economists out there?

"....when the run on the dollar begins, OPEC will inevitably at some point switch its pricing to the Euro, which the entire world is wrangling - much to Europe's chagrin - into not only a safe-haven currency, but a profitable one. The next house is being built before the old one is abandoned. When the run on the dollar begins, it will be as if the rest of the world declared war on the United States of America by launching a missile, dropping a bomb, or landing an army at Bethany Beach, Delaware."

More

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_business&Number=293235913#Post293235913
 
Seems all the erstwhile allies/friends of Uncle Sam have lots of money and lots of ideas what to do to destabilise the status quo   - but when the people are living in earthquake challenged houses - do they really have any leverage?

I doubt it - until we see Chevy Avalanche trucks from the Baltic to the Kamchatka Peninsula - Hemi is also a Russian Word for you Dodge Boys

As Eddie Shack would say - its winter! Lets drive across the ice!   ;)



 
By adopting the Euro they would only destabilize themselves.  Experience is showing that those countries who have opted to go the Euro route are experiencing inflationary pressures that are retarding rather than stimulating prosperity.  While this may be short-term pain for long-term gain the deeper the pain the tougher it is to recover.  So why take a self-induced hit before you attack a stronger opponent?

The article does make one point though - history has taught us that all empires eventually crumble.  When and how will the US empire bite the dust?
 
The economic empire that America sits at the center of is more likely to change gradually into something else than to crumble like previous military empires.  It's hard to make reasonable predictions because the world has never known an 'empire' in which the main actor steadfastly refuses to take up the traditional mantle.

In the words of Bertie Wooster:  "What ho?"

Jim
 
There is a concerted effort in the back halls of the UN, again pushed forward by the recent South Asia disaster, the "equalize" the poorer nations of the world with the richer ones (sorry, my words. Source was radio talk show I recently heard in the US). Things like national "income tax" where if a country's personal income is above $xxx.xx then you country pays money to a pool which pays country's who's personal income is less then $xx.xx. The thrust is that the most of the G8 (US, Canada, Germany, Japan, Fra, GB, to name a few) will end up paying a portion of their GNP/GDP to the UN so that the UN could equalize wealth around the world.

Hearing that, the article on above link, and some background knowedge about US/Russia/China oil interests developing around the Caspian sea, sounds like there is a strategic plan afoot to economically defang the US in the next 20-50 yrs. Stuff like this does not happen overnight, but in small tactical moves toward a strategic end.

Canada, with its wagon to well hitched to the US economy, had better open its eyes and watch for it as well.
 
The problem for these nations is they are trying to fight the ultimate asymmetrical opponent. Western "free market" economies are very adaptable and unpredictable by nature, and the American economy is the fastest, most adaptable one of all.

Consider this from a "negative" perspective: most of the companies/industries that the US tries to help with tariffs, tax loopholes etc. usually end up staying on life support, or tanking like the big US steel producers. "Mini mills" which do not receive life support operate under the radar and are profitable. Similarly, the personal computer business did not even exist prior to 1981 (the introduction of the first PC's to the consumer market), were not a product of some government program or agency and were considered curiosities for many years, yet are now a huge economic engine in their own right, and also propell so many other industries.

Europe, Russia, China and India are wedded to the "tariffs/incentives" model, and their industries are often inefficient dinosaurs on life support(compare how Boeing and Airbus airplanes are manufactured, for example). Even if the Euro is considered the "reserve currency", all this will mean is Americans will be receiving payment in Euros for their goods. The United Kingdom was the global banker in the pre WW I era, so the Pound Sterling was the global reserve currency, yet America became the global leader in almost every sort of commercial activity during the same period between the 1860s and 1914.

Manipulating currencies will cause disruption in the global trading communities, but in the end, most people trade money for goods and services, and who, after all, is creating these goods and services?
 
54/102 CEF said:
A link of interest - I think its crackpot stuff but economic warfare is a well known part of a strategic bag of tricks against an opponent.

Have a look - will follow along - any economists out there?

"....when the run on the dollar begins, OPEC will inevitably at some point switch its pricing to the Euro, which the entire world is wrangling - much to Europe's chagrin - into not only a safe-haven currency, but a profitable one. The next house is being built before the old one is abandoned. When the run on the dollar begins, it will be as if the rest of the world declared war on the United States of America by launching a missile, dropping a bomb, or landing an army at Bethany Beach, Delaware."

More

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_business&Number=293235913#Post293235913

The chinese are also holding a large quantity of US government Tbills to be used as a bargining chip for Taiwan and other topics that arise with US-Sino relations. 
 
ramy said:
The chinese are also holding a large quantity of US government Tbills to be used as a bargining chip for Taiwan and other topics that arise with US-Sino relations.  

all these asian central banks are holding us govt t-bills for one reason: to keep their own currencies weak and help their export sectors. they're kind of trapped into keeping their large dollar reserves, or risk seeing their currencies appreciate. either way, the dollar has been kept artificially high since the early 70s, just because it has been a reserve currency. eventually, though, they will have to let go and become more reliant on domestic demand, and let the market decide foreign exchange rates. that would also mean holding more euros in their central reserves. it's not a conspiracy, it's just economic reality.

and yes, armymedic, there is something "afoot to economically defang the US in the next 20-50 yrs" -- it's called the invisible hand of the market. That and the massive fiscal deficit the bush admin has managed to accumulate over the last four years (the Chinese and Japanese didn't print those bonds up themselves, you know).
 
Wow!

Seems we have a real Economic Warfare Unit here!

Thanks to all!  :salute:

 
squealiox said:
all these asian central banks are holding us govt t-bills for one reason: to keep their own currencies weak and help their export sectors. they're kind of trapped into keeping their large dollar reserves, or risk seeing their currencies appreciate. either way, the dollar has been kept artificially high since the early 70s, just because it has been a reserve currency. eventually, though, they will have to let go and become more reliant on domestic demand, and let the market decide foreign exchange rates. that would also mean holding more euros in their central reserves. it's not a conspiracy, it's just economic reality.

and yes, armymedic, there is something "afoot to economically defang the US in the next 20-50 yrs" -- it's called the invisible hand of the market. That and the massive fiscal deficit the bush admin has managed to accumulate over the last four years (the Chinese and Japanese didn't print those bonds up themselves, you know).

The purchase of US Treasury securities by foreign banks and investors can also be seen as a rational attempt to get a good rate of return, or to invest in the best "quality" investments on the market. Given the choice, would you by US "T Bills" or the Russian equivalent?

The Debt and deficit are not as big an issue as many people think, otherwise WE would have been dead in the water a long time ago. Although the gross numbers are mind boggling, when taken as a percentage of the US economy (or a percentage of the US asset pool, which is all the accumulated capital and value in the United States, which is many times larger than the GDP), their Debt and deficit fall within the historical ranges. An accelerating US economy has the potential to change the deficit numbers anyway, while structural changes to the tax code, such as "Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)" to take the place of Medicare/Medicade, and private investment accounts to suppliment Social Security will eliminate literally trillions of dollars of long term government liabilities (the sort of liabilities hidden in our future, BTW).
 
54/102 CEF said:
A link of interest - I think its crackpot stuff but economic warfare is a well known part of a strategic bag of tricks against an opponent.

Have a look - will follow along - any economists out there?

"....when the run on the dollar begins, OPEC will inevitably at some point switch its pricing to the Euro, which the entire world is wrangling - much to Europe's chagrin - into not only a safe-haven currency, but a profitable one. The next house is being built before the old one is abandoned. When the run on the dollar begins, it will be as if the rest of the world declared war on the United States of America by launching a missile, dropping a bomb, or landing an army at Bethany Beach, Delaware."

More

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_business&Number=293235913#Post293235913

I wish I could find the link I had at one time about the Euro/US$ pricing of oil.  It's interesting to note that Saddam Hussein pocketed billions simply by switching his reserve deposits with the United Nations from US$ to Euro when the US$ started dropping.

If OPEC were to switch the price of oil to Euro, the destabilization effect could be significant, because it means that the US has less ability to use monetary policy to influence its economy.  Economic warfare isn't quite as kooky as it sounds, because in a world with such trade interdependency, undermining a country's currency can cause real effects.  The Israelis, according to alleged ex-Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky in his book "By Way of Deception" executed a plan to flood Jordan with counterfeit dinars, destabilizing the economy and fueling hyperinflation.

Were China to unpeg the renminbi and allow it to float by dumping all those T-Bills, the real effects could be quite shocking.
 
a_majoor said:
The purchase of US Treasury securities by foreign banks and investors can also be seen as a rational attempt to get a good rate of return, or to invest in the best "quality" investments on the market. Given the choice, would you by US "T Bills" or the Russian equivalent?

The Debt and deficit are not as big an issue as many people think, otherwise WE would have been dead in the water a long time ago. Although the gross numbers are mind boggling, when taken as a percentage of the US economy (or a percentage of the US asset pool, which is all the accumulated capital and value in the United States, which is many times larger than the GDP), their Debt and deficit fall within the historical ranges. An accelerating US economy has the potential to change the deficit numbers anyway, while structural changes to the tax code, such as "Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)" to take the place of Medicare/Medicade, and private investment accounts to suppliment Social Security will eliminate literally trillions of dollars of long term government liabilities (the sort of liabilities hidden in our future, BTW).
most of the foreign buying of us govt debt securities is by central banks. while it's true that T-Bills are infinitely less risky than the Russian equivalent, getting a return on investment is not a primary concern for central bankers (after all, they never buy private equity, no matter how attractive or diversified). Their whole aim in life is monetary policy, as well as controlling forex rates. It's the dollars they are interested in buying, not the T-bills.
it's also telling that most of the foreign money coming into the us is in the form of debt financing, with relatively little going into equity investment (in fact the net equity inflows to the US are negative). that would suggest private investors are not particularly interested, on the whole.
as for the us debt/deficit, it is a problem as long as most of that debt is held by foreigners. a falling dollar won't matter to u.s. residents holding t-bills, but to a foreign investor -- who hold the majority -- any dollar-denominated asset becomes less attractive to hold while the dollar is falling. this current account deficit is only sustainable as long as the big central banks in Japan, China, etc. feel it is in their interest to buy dollars (and hold them as T-bills) to indirectly subsidize their main export market. When their own domestic markets become more important, they'll be much more inclined to sell those t-bills, which could mean big trouble for the us.
canada never had that problem, because our debt was mostly owed to canadians, in their own currency. and it's still far from clear whether the us economy is actually "accelerating" or that the tax cuts will have much positive effect (in fact, a lot of economists would probably recommend temporary tax cuts, rather than permanent ones, to really spur spending).
 
Another look at trade deficits and trade in general:

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/nrof_comment/tamny200501100823.asp

Global Misunderstanding

Trade-deficit obsessives just don't get it.

By John E. Tamny

Morgan Stanley's Stephen Roach was in the news again last week, warning the Wall Street Journal's Craig Karmin that the U.S. economy will experience â Å“an abrupt correctionâ ? if its trade deficit is not reduced. His comments followed his recent New York Times editorial, in which he argued that stronger foreign currencies, and a stronger Chinese yuan in particular, would be the cure for the very deficits that have him so spooked.

To someone not swayed by constant media misinformation about the horrors of trade deficits, Roach's thinking might on its face seem both counterintuitive and incorrect. Looked at from an individual's perspective, the very definition of a profitable trade is one in which the individual receives more than he gives. Better yet, the best transactions are not those in which $10 is exchanged for $10 of goods, but instead when exports worth $10 attract imports worth $11.

With the above in mind, it's no surprise that rich countries very often run trade deficits. As for surpluses, 19th century economist Bastiat reminded his readers that a sure way to achieve a trade surplus would be for the country desirous of one to simply sink goods marked for export offshore. This would lead to a favorable â Å“balance of trade,â ? all the while insuring that imports meant to be exchanged for the sunken exports would not reach the shores of the country seemingly bent on impoverishing itself.

Returning to China and the yuan, those who worry about trade imbalances are revealing a basic misunderstanding about what causes people and countries to exchange goods, and in the process impart wealth to each other. China's supposed flooding of the United States with goods is not a sign of economic weakness on our part, but instead one of strength. If we're flooded with products, it's because we can pay for them.

Perhaps more importantly, it has to be remembered that we ultimately exchange products for products. Notwithstanding the media hand-wringing about the â Å“kindness of strangers,â ? no one in the real world is able to import something without exporting something first. In short, trade balances are logically illusory in that we only receive goods and services to the extent that we give something in return.

Stephen Roach regularly frets about the yuan's â Å“cheapâ ? relationship to the dollar (and the trade deficit that supposedly results), but in doing so he chooses to ignore the reality that since China fixed its currency to the dollar in 1994, total trade between the two countries has risen exponentially; from $10 billion in 1992 to $191 billion in 2003. If trade is indeed an exchange of wealth, then the U.S. and China have for the last ten years been engaged in a mutually beneficial economic relationship in which each country has offered what it does best in return for what the other does best.

David Malpass, NRO Financial writer and chief economist at Bear Stearns, spoke about the above at an October monetary conference at the Cato Institute. He noted that currency certainty between the U.S. and China has helped to make the growth of trade possible. To his way of thinking, while floating or revaluing the yuan wouldn't necessarily reduce the U.S.'s trade deficit with China, it would create currency uncertainty that would reveal itself through a reduction in the total value of wealth exchanges.

In concentrating on the U.S.'s trade deficit with China, Roach and other economists are missing the truth about it; that it has occurred alongside a trading relationship that continues to grow, and which by definition continues to enrich both parties. More reasoned economic analysis would hopefully acknowledge the myriad benefits that accrue to countries that trade with each other, and would presumably stop all the dangerous talk about the certain â Å“benefitsâ ? of an uncertain dollar/yuan relationship.

â ” John Tamny is a writer in Washington, D.C. He can be contacted at [email protected].
 
Larry Kudlow says "I told you so"

http://lkmp.blogspot.com/
A Roaring Start

Here's one story you won't find in tomorrow's front pages: The US budget deficit is shrinking rapidly. Today's Treasury report on the nation's finances for December shows a fiscal 2005 year-to-date deficit that is already $11 billion less than last year's. After the first three months of the fiscal year beginning last October, cash outlays increased by 6.1% overall, while tax collections grew by 10.5%. Consequently, the 2005 deficit is on track to drop to $355 billion from $413 billion in FY 2004.At this pace the new year deficit as a fraction of projected GDP will descend to 2.9% compared to last year's deficit share of 3.6%. While wire reports today were loaded with accounts of an expanded trade gap (driven mostly by slower exports to stagnant European and Japanese economies, along with higher oil imports from the peak in energy prices), not a single report I could find mentioned the sizable narrowing in US fiscal accounts. The really big budget story is the explosion in tax revenues prompted by tax-cut led economic growth over the past eighteen months. Under 50% cash bonus expensing for the purchase of plant and equipment, productivity-driven corporate profits ranging around 20% generated a 45% rise in business taxes. At lower income tax-rates, employment gains of roughly 2.5 million are throwing off over 6% in payroll tax receipts.Personal tax revenues are rising at a near 9% pace. Meanwhile, non-withheld revenues from individuals-- including investor dividends and capital gains now taxed at only 15%-- have jumped by over 14% in the wake of strong back-to-back yearly stock market advances. It was these investment-related tax collections following the Clinton capgains tax cut and saving expansion bill of 1997 that led to bull market budget surpluses in the 1997-2001 pre-9/11 period. However, with the flood of new revenues, this year's federal budget is still overspending.Domestic non-entitlement program spending excluding homeland defense is rising at a 4.1 rate, more than twice the pace of core inflation. But this may be changing. According to this morning's Washington Post, the first really tough Bush budget planned for FY 2006 (due out next month) may be essentially unchanged from this year's expected totals outside of defense and homeland security.According to reporter Jonathan Weisman, the administration's budget request "... would freeze most spending on agriculture, veterans and science,slash or eliminate dozens of federal programs,and force more costs, from Medicaid to housing, onto state and local governments...". The rapid growth of federal health care and other entitlements would also be slowed markedly. Though no numbers are yet available, all this sounds a bit like Ronald Reagan's tax-cutting budget in 1981. In addition to reducing the top personal tax-rate to 50% from 70%, the Gipper proposed budget cuts that would be worth nearly $100 billion in today's dollars. Of course the political screaming has already begun. A passel of Democrats and at least one Republican-- Sen. Craig Thomas of Wyoming-- have written a protest letter to Office of Management and Budget director Josh Bolten. Former Republican Michigan governor John Engler, now president of the National Association of Manufacturers, has pledged to fight the elimination of various protectionist subsidies to his member firms. However, long-time Bush ally Sen. Judd Gregg, New Hampshire Republican and current chair of the upper chamber's budget commitee, is set to support the administration's new budget discipline. This include's, by the way, Bush's plan to reduce Social Security benefits by replacing wage indexing with a price-level formula, or extending the retirement age, or both in return for personal saving accounts. Treasury Secretary John Snow has just completed a Wall Street tour where leading bond traders told him that an additional hundred billion dollars a year over the next decade for transitional financing necessary to reconstruct the ailing Social Security program will be easily manageable. " A rounding error," one senior trader told Snow. With supply-side tax reform on the way, shrinking budget deficits, new-found spending discipline and a president determined to confound conventional wisdom by reforming Social Security, George W. Bush's second term is off to a roaring start even before he is officially sworn in next week.

posted by Money Politic$ at 10:03 PM

Sounds like a few things we should be considering, or would that be a "mistake"?
 
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