Elemental Change for Purple Trades - Reserves

[orca73]

Find this frustrating within the Reserve world.

In the Regular Force, if an army clerk (purple trade) is posted to a ship, all they have to do is wear the appropriate work dress (NCD's) but are not required to change their chosen element.  If a navy clerk is posted to an army base, they are required to wear the appropriated work dress (Combats) but again, not required to change their element.  And in both cases, that person would be placed on that Unit's establishment.

If you accept a job, which was advertised with the Navy Reserve, you are not requested to change your element but to wear the distinctive work dress. 

However, I have found over the years, that if you accept a job with the Army Reserve, which was nationally advertised, you have to accept the element transfer in order to accept the job offer.  I am proud to be Navy but I also wish to be able to work anywhere a job is offered.  Unfortunately, now I have to change my element in order to work for the next two years and keep my fingers crossed to CT to the Regular Forces as a Naval Clerk.

 

[agc]

This comes down to who foots the bill.

Regular force members are all paid out of the same pot.  Not true of all reserve positions.

 

[orca73]

"This comes down to who foots the bill.

Regular force members are all paid out of the same pot.  Not true of all reserve positions."

Thing is, I already have both work dress uniforms.  Why bother footing the bill for the Army DEU's, when I already have the Navy DEU's and I get the replacements via points system now.  With the transfer, now they have to foot the bill for all new replacement kit.  And boy do the Army have a lot of kit.

Funny side note, I will be one of the few Army dressed individuals with the SSM on in an Infantry unit.  :rofl: 

 

[MikeL]

Funny side note, I will be one of the few Army dressed individuals with the SSM on in an Infantry unit.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm going to assume what you meant here...

SSM as in Special Service Medal?  Bragging that you have a medal that a majority of others in that unit don't?

Also, what do you mean Army Dressed?

 

[agc]

Thing is, I already have both work dress uniforms.  Why bother footing the bill for the Army DEU's, when I already have the Navy DEU's and I get the replacements via points system now.  With the transfer, now they have to foot the bill for all new replacement kit.  And boy do the Army have a lot of kit.

I was referring to who pays the salary, not for the clothes.

If you want to be on the establishment of a militia unit, they'll want you to look the same as them.

 

[OldSolduer]

You don't have to join either. Stay out.

 

[kratz]

You don't have to join either. Stay out.

Always a good answer to interoperability and total force yada yada... :nod:

 

[OldSolduer]

Yeah whatever. Whining and complaining because you have to change elements is good too.

When a Ref Force infanteer retires and moves to the Reserve Force....he has to change uniform accoutrements.

 

[orca73]

I'm going to assume what you meant here...

SSM as in Special Service Medal?  Bragging that you have a medal that a majority of others in that unit don't?

Also, what do you mean Army Dressed?

Sorry, No I was not bragging about have a Special Service Medal.  There is a new Naval Pin coming the is an SSI (Sea Service Insigina) (I am sure I will be corrected on the right term, which I have been).  It is a Pin which indicates how much sea time one in the Navy/Naval Reserve has.  I currently have over 3 years and will 1 of maybe a couple in the Unit. 

As for who is paying, I believe LFAA is pay and I am required to wear the combats on a daily basis, which I have no problem with.  (If the CF wanted us to all look the same, why did we change in the 80's from all green uniforms to tricolor/tri-service uniforms).  I understand them wanting some uniformity however, we are a tri-service, all serving the Canadian Forces, I just happen to be clerical, proud of the element I joined.  I am willing to go where ever the CF needs to have a clerk, be land, sea or air.  I am not "whining" about changing the Element.  I think it is a very legitimate question.

 

[kratz]

Yeah whatever. Whining and complaining because you have to change elements is good too.

When a Ref Force infanteer retires and moves to the Reserve Force....he has to change uniform accoutrements.

...and when a sailor changes hulls, he must change those same items. Reg or PRes. Hard Sea or Support.

The OP's question is why does "purple" trade have to change uniforms in today's CF? If the PRes is working toward acting as close to the RegF as possible, this is a question worth looking at instead of writting off as whining.

 

[Biohazardxj]

It is rather silly.  Seeing how a Reg force purple trade does not change elements when working for the reserves.  Me as example, I am an Airforce clerk working at a militia unit, also our RSS Bin rat is Airforce. 

 

[armyvern]

ARAF, NavRes and Reserve. All hire their own staff (less those Reg Force staff they have --- who they don't pay; the Reg F does).

You want them to hire you B Class into their Unit - as a member of that Unit - and pay you, then wearing 'their' uniform of their enviornment is not so much to ask. After all, these are ResF units we are speaking of, so the members they are hiring - unlike those of us in purple uniforms of the Reg Force - are not subject to postings (ie: permanent moves) to another enviornment.

Quite simply, the fact that you would like to up and leave that ResF Unit in a couple years to CT to the RegF or NavRes as a "naval DEU wearing clerk" has, and should have, NO bearing on what uniform their Unit personnel wear. They hire you, they fire you, they pay you --- you wear their uniform.

That would be like working at Burger King, taking a new job at McDonald's and asking to still wear you Burger King uniform while working at McDo`s because it is your actual intent to return to Burger King as a fries-up guy in two years.

PS: Have you even mentioned to this Res unit that you actually intend on leaving them in a couple years?

 

[armyvern]

It is rather silly.  Seeing how a Reg force purple trade does not change elements when working for the reserves.  Me as example, I am an Airforce clerk working at a militia unit, also our RSS Bin rat is Airforce.

You should think long and hard about the above. You do many things they don`t. Being posted extra-enviornmentally is one of them.

No, it`s not silly. See the Burger King vs McDonald`s tidbit. Who is writing the cheque is never silly.

 

[OldSolduer]

It is rather silly.  Seeing how a Reg force purple trade does not change elements when working for the reserves.  Me as example, I am an Airforce clerk working at a militia unit, also our RSS Bin rat is Airforce.

No its not silly. Reg Force, as stated, are liable to be posted etc. When you come onto the strength of a Reserve Unit as a Class A Reservist, you are expected to change accoutrements and if required your DEU.

If you don't like that....or think its silly...or vehemently disagree, don't join the unit.

 

[ModlrMike]

It reads as if the OP is talking about Class B. If that's the case, why should he have to change uniform? After all, the expectation is that he'll revert to Class A at his parent unit. However, if he's talking Class A... then I agree with Jim, the change is warranted. Perhaps a little clarity on what class of service, what kind of job/tasking we're talking about is in order.

 

[orca73]

The little problem I see with this comparison, if we take it literally, BK and MD's are to separate competeting companies.  The CF is one large company with multiple branches.  I could also state, if a specific unit does not wish an "outside" element to apply for their advertised job, then it should be stated in the advertisement only this element should apply.  When the Canadian Forces wants the primary reserve to be treated as the regular force, the demand is for us to step up and meet the expectation. Yet, on another issue, we are informed to be quiet and accept whatever is offered? This is not a true one force, or "Total Force" concept.

I understand  a  Unit is proud of their uniform and heritage, why can't I be proud of mine?  Unfortunately,  with the cutbacks there are not a lot of Naval Reserve employment opportunities this year.  That is one reason for the Naval CT going in.  While I want to continue to be employed as a clerk in the CF, I had to look for employment else where, within the CF.  Thus I  found myself  applying  for  positions with various  different Units, being Army, Navy or Air. The one I eventually accepted had been vacant for over two years. The CoC clearly knows this full-time position is funded as two year Class B/A position and that I will move on if not extended. During the interview process, I clearly stated my preference to retain my Naval Uniform, and long story short, I was hired but informed I would have to switch.

This all being said, if it is the uniform or the job, obviously, in order to keep my job, I will change the uniform, wasting more government  (AKA public taxpayer)  money as I will have to be fully re kitted.  It is simply a question I have wondered about over the years and wanted to hear other peoples opinions and hopefully, maybe change some peoples minds.  I am willing to move, be posted, take a position wherever needed more often than those infamous RegF unlimited liability positions, but because I hold a primary reserve position policies allow that I may be treated less.

 

[OldSolduer]

It reads as if the OP is talking about Class B. If that's the case, why should he have to change uniform? After all, the expectation is that he'll revert to Class A at his parent unit. However, if he's talking Class A... then I agree with Jim, the change is warranted. Perhaps a little clarity on what class of service, what kind of job/tasking we're talking about is in order.

One thing that picks my....is the Reg Force that retires after 20 -25 years and immediately feels entitled to Class B employment. Just saying and sorry for the tangent.

 

[orca73]

One thing that picks my....is the Reg Force that retires after 20 -25 years and immediately feels entitled to Class B employment. Just saying and sorry for the tangent.

I guess we could end up taking this one step further by say, now we know why there is not a lot of Class B jobs for reservists but truefully this is not the case for me.  I think it is more the hard sea trades that might be effected by the transfers.

 

[George Wallace]

I would like to ask the question as to whom is the SOU being billed for your wages.  If it is the Primary Reserves, and not the Naval Reserve, then I would say you are likely to be compelled to wear a LAND uniform.  If you were being paid out of the Naval Reserve budget, then I could understand you keeping a Naval DEU and other uniforms.  In the end, I would say that it is more or less dictated by whom is paying you as to what uniform you'll wear, when dealing with the Reserves.  If you were Regular Force and posted to a Primary Reserve unit, it would be a moot point, and you would not have this "identity" problem.

 

[George Wallace]

I guess we could end up taking this one step further by say, now we know why there is not a lot of Class B jobs for reservists but truefully this is not the case for me.  I think it is more the hard sea trades that might be effected by the transfers.

Get real.  If a "hard sea" Trade was to take a callout at a Land unit, it would have to include a CT.  There are no "hard sea" Trades in an Reserve Infantry unit.

Your whole understanding of the differences between  the Regular Force and the Reserves (Air, Land and Sea) seems to be lacking.  The Regular Force is one thing, but the Reserves are three totally different things altogether.