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Expanding NBP role

CougarKing

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I know NBPs have already been discussed in a number of other threads, but I thought starting a new one would be better than hijacking an older thread on  NBPs which is not very much related to what I want to discuss.

Other than the few peacekeeping contingents overseas, the Hornets at Aviano, Italy,  as well as Canada's contribution to Afghanistan, it seems to me that CF warships are the most forward means by which Ottawa can intervene in a situation where our interests are threatened.  While Marcom frigates and destroyers have the main purpose of securing the sea lanes along with other NATO allies, I think that perhaps NBPs on these ships should be trained for more than just boarding  and seizing suspicious vessels.

Take this scenario:

-Terrorists storm and take over a Canadian embassy or consulate in a nation, which Canada recognizes, but is unstable politically for some reason.
- Canadian Embassies abroad have no military personnel to protect them unlike British or US Embassies who have their own Marine detachments; I suppose the foreign service relies on local "rent-a-cops" whom may or may not reliable; I doubt a single military attache and the few NCMs who are his aides at the embassy will be enough to deter such an onslaught
- the local govt. refuses landing rights for any CF Hercs carrying a potential rescue mission contingernt similar to that in the Israelis' Entebbe operation.

With that scenario in mind, suppose none of Canada's allies such as the UK or the US would be willing to help for any reason and suppose that the local govt. in that nation may be unwilling to help or unable to do so because of a local crisis such as a civil war.

What then?

In such a scenario, perhaps NBPs transported by Helo from a nearby Frigate would be the best means to resolve that situation, along the same lines as the US Marine TRAPP teams stationed aboard US capital ships and amphibious assault ships. Preferrably, they would have training similar to those US TRAPP teams.

While many of you will think this scenario may seem unlikely, one never knows whether such an eventuality will occur. The same way no one expected the US Embassy in Tehran to be stormed and taken over during the Iran hostage crisis. Thus it pays to have the capbility for such a situation; the Japanese had no capability to react when their embassy in Peru was taken over by those Marxist rebels (forgot the group) for several months and thus had to rely on local security forces to resolve the situation.

Does anyone think this is a bad idea for sailors who are already have those NBP duties in addition to the watches they have to stand? Perhaps an Army detachment aboard a Frigate for such a scenario might be a better idea, but I figure neither the destroyers nor the frigates have enough accomodations for a detachment seperate from the crew. What do you guys think?









 
CougarKing said:
I know NBPs have already been discussed in a number of other threads, but I thought starting a new one would be better than hijacking an older thread on  NBPs which is not very much related to what I want to discuss.

Other than the few peacekeeping contingents overseas, the Hornets at Aviano, Italy,  as well as Canada's contribution to Afghanistan, it seems to me that CF warships are the most forward means by which Ottawa can intervene in a situation where our interests are threatened.  While Marcom frigates and destroyers have the main purpose of securing the sea lanes along with other NATO allies, I think that perhaps NBPs on these ships should be trained for more than just boarding  and seizing suspicious vessels.

Take this scenario:

-Terrorists storm and take over a Canadian embassy or consulate in a nation, which Canada recognizes, but is unstable politically for some reason.
- Canadian Embassies abroad have no military personnel to protect them unlike British or US Embassies who have their own Marine detachments; I suppose the foreign service relies on local "rent-a-cops" whom may or may not reliable; I doubt a single military attache and the few NCMs who are his aides at the embassy will be enough to deter such an onslaught
- the local govt. refuses landing rights for any CF Hercs carrying a potential rescue mission contingernt similar to that in the Israelis' Entebbe operation.

With that scenario in mind, suppose none of Canada's allies such as the UK or the US would be willing to help for any reason and suppose that the local govt. in that nation may be unwilling to help or unable to do so because of a local crisis such as a civil war.

What then?

In such a scenario, perhaps NBPs transported by Helo from a nearby Frigate would be the best means to resolve that situation, along the same lines as the US Marine TRAPP teams stationed aboard US capital ships and amphibious assault ships. Preferrably, they would have training similar to those US TRAPP teams.

While many of you will think this scenario may seem unlikely, one never knows whether such an eventuality will occur. The same way no one expected the US Embassy in Tehran to be stormed and taken over during the Iran hostage crisis. Thus it pays to have the capbility for such a situation; the Japanese had no capability to react when their embassy in Peru was taken over by those Marxist rebels (forgot the group) for several months and thus had to rely on local security forces to resolve the situation.

Does anyone think this is a bad idea for sailors who are already have those NBP duties in addition to the watches they have to stand? Perhaps an Army detachment aboard a Frigate for such a scenario might be a better idea, but I figure neither the destroyers nor the frigates have enough accomodations for a detachment seperate from the crew. What do you guys think? 

The scenarios you propse would most likely call in JTF2 or CSOR, I don't think you truly understand the role of a Canadian NBP. People talk about putting an army detachment onboard Canadian ships, but is this practical? No its not for the same reason you would not round out an infantry section with AVN TECHs and Stokers neither have the training to effectively take on the job. Can an AVN Tech be expected to do section battle drills? Sure after some training he might be able to. What would an infantryman do for damage control? Yeah again maybe after some training you would be able to. Folks what you have to realize onboard a CPF space is limited to embark these entra personnel. CougarKing of you have ever sailed or even read the other threads you would have realized it. CK you also seem to imply there is a lack of training for our teams, there is not we are getting better and better every year in terms of capbility, no we are not marines or SEALs nor do we want to be but the job we do we do it well.

Please read FSTOs Reply#28 and Navalsnipr's Reply#30 http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/45213.30.html
 
The scenarios you propose would most likely call in JTF2 or CSOR.

Sir,

Did you carefully read my whole message, including this part:

the local govt. refuses landing rights for any CF Hercs carrying a potential rescue mission contingernt similar to that in the Israelis' Entebbe operation.

That could possibly nullify the JTF2 option unless they are airdropped.

Folks what you have to realize onboard a CPF space is limited to embark these entra personnel. CougarKing of you have ever sailed or even read the other threads you would have realized it

I DID realize it even if the only warships I've ever been on are museum ships. That's why I typed this:

but I figure neither the destroyers nor the frigates have enough accomodations for a detachment seperate from the crew.

Those comments aside, why do you say NBPs wouldn't want that kind of role/training suggested in the message? So they can focus on just boarding suspicious vessels during a blockade?

You say I don't understand their role. As a civvy, I'll admit ignorance when it comes to naval matters. However, please enlighten me then what their exact role is then, besides shipboard duties and acting as boarding parties for storming hostile vessels. Would they act as landing parties as well?






 
As a past member of a NBP let me try and enlighten you.  We are mostly people from all elements of the crew (Stokers, ET's, Stewards Bos'n ect).  We all have training which allow us to aid the team in many ways.  We however are trained in self deffence and trained how to fight our way off a ship not on.  Add crowd control and some other security roles and that is our main focus of training.  We are by no means infantry or JTF, People who train and train and train and train in conducting offensive operations.   It is more likely that the CF would fly the JTF to us and helo them into the area rather than send a ships team.  That makes infinitely more sense because a NBP has no where near the Whoopa$$ the JTF does.  I would be very leery following some of the A1's I've had into a situation you describe. 

Tell me you want to help/search/seize a ship and I'm in its what I'm there for.  I'm not trained enough for the Bravo Two Zero crap.

Just my view on this.

:cdn: 

 
BEEFY06 said:
Anyone see the new NBP Badge????....Makes ya wonder....

never mind the NBP badge, have you seen the NBP uniforms? [note: there is not a boat cloak planned for this issue, and there is no tailor in the Kingston area to custom make one, in case a certain somebody asks!]
 
BEEFY06 said:
Anyone see the new NBP Badge????....Makes ya wonder....
It was an insidious plot by the dress committee to shut up the Navy in regards to getting qualification badges.  :salute:
 
Navy_Blue said:
As a past member of a NBP let me try and enlighten you.  We are mostly people from all elements of the crew (Stokers, ET's, Stewards Bos'n ect).  We all have training which allow us to aid the team in many ways.  We however are trained in self deffence and trained how to fight our way off a ship not on.  Add crowd control and some other security roles and that is our main focus of training.  We are by no means infantry or JTF, People who train and train and train and train in conducting offensive operations.   It is more likely that the CF would fly the JTF to us and helo them into the area rather than send a ships team.  That makes infinitely more sense because a NBP has no where near the Whoopa$$ the JTF does.  I would be very leery following some of the A1's I've had into a situation you describe. 

Tell me you want to help/search/seize a ship and I'm in its what I'm there for.  I'm not trained enough for the Bravo Two Zero crap.

How about searching/assaulting oil rigs occupied by an armed opponent? Like the way those US warships dropped Marines on oil rigs in those skirmishes with Iran in the late 1980s (The Iran tanker war?) I assume those are in their mission too, or not?
 
CougarKing said:
How about searching/assaulting oil rigs occupied by an armed opponent? Like the way those US warships dropped Marines on oil rigs in those skirmishes with Iran in the late 1980s (The Iran tanker war?) I assume those are in their mission too, or not?

What we can and cannot do is discussed elsewhere.
 
I have led 3 NBP, 2 in "operational theatre" (APOLLO/ENDEAVOUR)  Dude, ain't no way we would ever get involved in any "neat" op that you describe.  Having sadly seen too many PO's bimble their plentiful carcasses up the jumping ladder, and pudgy stewards "racking the action" on the 870 while their double chins compete for breathing room, I certainly do not feel confident in leading these cats into harm's way.  We are a visual deterent, we look at papers and stuff, paddle around the ship for a spell, get hungry, then bimble back to Mother for something deep-fried.

And yes, we just got our NBP badges and they are hideous.  My team looks like a bunch of power rangers.
 
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