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F-16 strafes N.J. elementary school

I do agree, no reason what so ever he should have been "off the mark" THAT badly. But, as mentioned he was also flying a night mission. Flying at night is EXTREMELY dangerous to even experienced pilots. Basically it's one of the most dangerous things you can do, nevermind flying a fighter jet. Like Inch says, too early to tell what happened. But thank god no one was hurt, 20mm or 30mm, a single round from either of those guns could probably rip a human almost in half I bet!

Better it was just simply strafing also then if it was a bomb run...
;)
 
"Well your honour, I believed me and my wingman were being shot at. I acted in self defense".
 
The technical ability to fly a multi-million-dollar aircraft does not necessarily infer competence in matters beyond the cockpit.   Just ask the families of Sgt Leger, Cpl Dyer, Pte Smith, and Pte Green....
 
One mistake of this type can be attributed to lack of judgement by an individual. Two shows a much more widespread problem, as well as a complete inability to apply lessons learned. If I were them I'd be taking a serious look at what exactly the force as a whole is teaching (or rather NOT teaching) its pilots.

In the words of Wellington: I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me.
 
If crap hits the fan it may be this fool or others like him that will be providing close air support for our troops. Lord help our people then. ::)
 
That's why the D-Day Dodgers in Italy prayed for inclement weather during WW II.  ;D

GW
 
Caesar said:
Maybe pbi has a take on the training level of the ANG. I know he has some experience dealing with the US Army Res and has posted his thoughts on them here..

What do you think pbi?

My thoughts are similar, Im curious to know.
 
Wasn't this fella a reservist? For Christ's sake, didn't they learn anything from killing our guys in Afghanistan? Maybe air force reservists should only be equipped with paintballs and a prop plane! Unbelievable!!!!!Totally unacceptable.
 
I tend to agree with Inch: we must not rush to judge. I am loath to second-guess the man on the trigger unless I am sure I know what I'm talking about: none of us really do right now. There is an almost automatic assumption that he was a reckless cowboy-how do we know this?

As far as the pilot being USAIRNG, it is not necessarily a reflection of his skill level, good or bad. He may have been an ex-USAF regular, or he may be a shoe salesman. He may have combat time over Iraq and Afgh, or he may never have fired a shot in anger. He may belong to a very active sqn (some AIRNG Sqns have a NORAD role) or his sqn may fly only what it needs to stay current. He may be a great pilot who made a mistake, or a turd who should be flying a desk.

Further, how can anyboy seroiusly draw a connection between Tarnak Farms and this incident, except that both pilots were USAIRNG? There are probably hundreds, if not thousands of good US missions flown for every ****-up like this one. Keep things in proportion.

Now, to the issue of how well trained the ARNG is (I can't really comment on the AIRNG). ARNG soldiers attend the same DP1 as the Active Army counterparts. After that, they will normally go back to take Active Army courses to increase their quals, but the ARNG has been working extensively on distributed training. For example, ARNG Bradley unit training can be supported by mobile Bradley simulators that are brought to the ARNG training centre on weekends, instead of having to haul the Guardsmen across the state to the MATES site where the Bradleys are stored.

During the course of a year, the average "traditional" ARNG soldier (="Class A" Res) parades one weekend a month and about two weeks each summer. On this basis, they do considerably less annual training time than our Res soldiers do. This is particularly noticeable at the senior leader level: our Res COs and Bde Comds put in hours that usually surprise their ARNG counterparts. It is not hard to imagine what becomes of skills learned at the School of Arm/Branch: they fade (as they would in any Army). I have been told   by an ARNG officer that the Active Army considers ARNG officer training   to be equivalent with Active Officers only to the rank of Capt: after that a gap begins to open. My limited contact with Guard soldiers suggests to me that they are probably not as good at fieldcraft and soldier skills as our Res soldiers, but I could be wrong (anybody want to chime in here........dglad?...). USARNG types seem to be universally impressed with the quality of our Res soldiers.

Now, this is not a static situation. The US Army has been forced to draw very heavily on the USARNG and USAR in a manner that was probavly never envisioned short of a general war. For example, here in Afgh, TF PHOENIX, which trains the Afghan Army, is almost all ARNG. The result is that there are now thousands of Guardsmen with recent refresher training and operational experience. As well, the US Army has seen quite clearly that it has some problems in the USARNG and USAR, and is working on fixing them.

Cheers.
 
Pratice for the real McCoy when they go over to Iraq
 
RECON-MAN said:
Pratice for the real McCoy when they go over to Iraq

If you're suggesting that US pilots intentionally attacks schools in Iraq, I think that's a bit much, don't you? Cheers.
 
Ya know ... I wuz thinkin' ...

It always struck me as significant when reading about pilots during the Second World War who'd had an aircraft shot out from under them ... it wasn't necessarily a hinderance to becoming a squadron commander, or higher ...

So, after some calm reflection ... perhaps making a mistake during training isn't the end of the world
(i.e. better during training than during real operations ...)

In this instance, I've got a hunch this is one pilot who'll be extra to identify his target in future ...
(which isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially when there are friendlies on the ground ...)
 
Slim said:
I think they got off lucky. The F16 is one of the few US warplanes to carry the 20mm instead of the 30mm...Which would have had a much more pronounced result!

Nit picking time...

Actually, the 20mm Vulcan is the rule, not the exception.  The Vulcan is 'stock' on all fast-movers except the A-10...which is so slow, it's the only one that takes bird strikes from the rear.

There is a 30mm pod that the F-16 can carry, but it's not as accurate as the one on the A-10.  (Trivia time...the Avenger cannon on the A-10 can actually slow the aircraft down when fired; the cannon was designed offset from center so that the firing barrel is on the centerline to prevent yaw.)
 
There's alsways someone...Please Master-Corporal, may I have anouther!

Slim ::)
 
Michael Dorosh said:
Did NJ vote for Kerry

yes they did, they won't do that again....  :dontpanic:

opps and it seems the AF guys dropped a bomb in Pennsalvina too,  they voted Kerry too

OMG I live in Oregon, we're next! Time to check the bomb shelter.....

On a serious note, thank God no one was hurt in either of these incidents!
 
My question is --  is the pilot now authorized to paint a map symbol for a school beneath his canopy.
 
X Royal said:
My question is --   is the pilot now authorized to paint a map symbol for a school beneath his canopy.

I appreciate your sarcasm, but here's the answer anyway..... It wouldn't do much good, the maps we use flying are 1:500,000 as compared to the 1:50,000 or 1:25,000 the army uses.  They're aeronautical maps and lack the detail of having school symbols.
 
Inch said:
I appreciate your sarcasm, but here's the answer anyway..... It wouldn't do much good, the maps we use flying are 1:500,000 as compared to the 1:50,000 or 1:25,000 the army uses.   They're aeronautical maps and lack the detail of having school symbols.

I think he means like when you shoot down a fighter and paint a little plane on your fighter for your "kill count". It was quite clever. Like when we hit a seal in a RHIB and I drew a tiny seal on our bow..... >:D
 
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