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F18F rather then F35?

CougarKing

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Another update: it seems that the UK MoD may get Super Hornets for these new carriers instead of F35s.

The Royal Navy is set to save £10 billion on the defence budget by dropping plans to buy a fleet of fighter jets costing £100m each for its new aircraft carriers.

It is expected to swap an order for 138 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) for a version of a cheaper aircraft currently flown off US carriers, the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet.

The cost-saving move was considered at a meeting last weekend between Liam Fox, the defence secretary, and services chiefs to discuss cuts.
“JSF is an unbelievably expensive programme,” said a senior defence source. “It makes no sense at all in the current climate, and even if we continued with it we cannot afford the aircraft we said we would buy.”
The JSF, built by Lockheed Martin, Boeing’s main American rival, would have been the most expensive single project in the defence budget, with costs already put at £13.8 billion and rising. The aircraft were set to replace Harrier jump jets flown by the RAF and Navy.
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Here's the link, but I'm afraid you won't be able to use it without a subscription:
The Sunday Times link
 
Interesting, if true.

The F/A-18 does not come in "jump jet" model. This means that the UK would by-pass the original plan of building the Queen Elizabeth's as jump jet carrier (STOVL), with a jump ramp forward, as a first incarnation with the possbility, later on, for the follow on generation of airplanes (after the F-35), to refit them as CATOBAR's (Catapult Assisted Take-Off Barrier Assisted recovery).

They would go straigth into a CATOBAR design if they go for F-18's right now. The interesting part (and one of the reasons originally to design them as STOVL) is that they are electric propulsion / gaz turbine generators ships for their main propulsion. Thus, no capacity to produce steam in the amounts required for catapults, which is why they wanted to wait for the next generation and hope the electromagnetic catapult would have ben perfected and exported by the US by then. The USS Gerald Ford is being designed now with the first electro-magnetic catapult, but it is unproven in actual operations. The Queen Elizabeth would have to use such system, unless an extra engine room and smokestack was designed in at this stage to mass produce steam, with the attenant extra weight and watchkeeping personnel.

On a positive  note, however, going CATOBAR right away means they can take on E-2's Hawkeye's right away for AEW, which is far superior to the Helicopter / Osprey mounted system they were going to have to use to support the F-35's.
 
Read on a couple of other forums that the RN is looking at getting Super Hornets vice Lightnings. Anyone else see the same?
 
Also already posted as an update at the other thread below:

(link edited out after post from "CVF thread" merged with this thread)
 
Merits its own topic since we are talking the possible change of the RN AirGroup for the QE CVF. Its like talking about Cyclones in a Halifax class thread.

Milnet.Ca Staff
 
I wondered when the x 65 F35s for Canada were announced if Super Hornet models would not have been a better choice for the Canadian Air Force.

 
There are 3 models of the F35, the Royal navy was looking at the Carrier Version which is a more costly AC. The variant we are buying is the plain F35 with no extra maritime bells and whistles.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
The USS Gerald Ford is being designed now with the first electro-magnetic catapult, but it is unproven in actual operations. The Queen Elizabeth would have to use such system, unless an extra engine room and smokestack was designed in at this stage to mass produce steam, with the attenant extra weight and watchkeeping personnel.
Would an hydraulic system, of sorts, be useful for catapult launches vice steam?  Or am I talking about the same thing?
 
You can get steam to much higher pressures than hydraulics. The oil self combusts at too high a temp.
 
Tango18A said:
There are 3 models of the F35, the Royal navy was looking at the Carrier Version which is a more costly AC. The variant we are buying is the plain F35 with no extra maritime bells and whistles.

Not quite correct Tango: The UK was purchasing the "Marines" VSTOL variant, not the "Carrier" one developed for the US Navy. The QE's were NOT to be conventional aircraft carriers at first, rather STOVL with a ramp, but could be transformed into a conventional at a later stage of their long life depending on the next generation of fighter after the F-35's.

That's why I wrote the post above calling the move interesting.

While the British CV's are by no means safe from their defence review, the steel has been purchased and work on both of them is proceeding, with the first section (bow) of the QE herself laid down and completed ready for assembly to section 2. Switching to a conventional at this stage means redrafting a lot of the engineering drawings: You need at the very least to: redesign the flight deck to remove the jump ramp, add catapults, provide an angled landing strip, add the arrester wire system, add the landing mirrors or any other landing guidance system you wish. Below decks, you have to add whatever equipment you need to provide for the catapults and arresting systems: Will it be steam? You need a boiler room and the smoke stack to dispose of the fumes. Should it be Electromagnetic, you will need extra electrical power generation.

On another plane, we should put the British decision in perspective: The British F-35's were not going to be the RAF's backbone for fighter/attack aircraft defending Britain. This is done with the Tornadoes and Eurofighters. Their F-35's were solely for the replacement of their Harriers, mostly to serve on the carriers. Once you incorporate the plusses/minusses of replacing STOVL F-35's with CATOBAR F-18 E/F's, looking at weapons load at launch, range, sea state you can operate in, capacity of your control plane (An EH-101 helicopter/V-22 Osprey for the F-35's versus the latest E-2 Hawkeye fully loaded backing up the Super-Hornets), possibility of carrying tanker planes on the aircraft carrier, etc., I think that there would be no significant gain or loss in the British move.

We are not in the same boat, as our F-35's are to become the backbone of our Air Force's capacity to defend our airspace and provide air cover to our operations worldwide.
 
 
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