Fast Attack Tanker and Small Ship Airpower

[Baz]

Is this a new ship category ,Fast Attack tanker ? Never heard of this before.

For some of us its a sarcastic take on the armament capabilities (or lack there of) of our AOR's. This type of AOR is usually described as a Fast Attack Replenishment Tanker (FART).

In this case it seems it was also the term used in an article in the Canadian Naval Review (http://www.navalreview.ca/), a magazine roughly equivalent to the USNI Proceedings (https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings).

 

[tomahawk6]

Thanks  8)

 

[Underway]

Over lunch today workshopped a few ideas with my boss (CSE as well) who is the local radar expert.  Went to the whiteboard and goofed around with a few concepts for an AEW UAV sensor system.  His design solution was that using IR would be a better idea for AEW of a missile attack.  The UAV could be smaller, wide area IR sensors are cheaper and easier to maintain, and with a top down look a missile or aircraft exhaust plume and skin friction would be relatively easy to spot on the neutral cool of the ocean. 

This would give the ship more time to be ready to defend itself even with current sensors and weapons. 

Loss of the UAV wouldn't be as expensive as putting an AESA on it and smaller UAV could mean a ship could carry more than one. 

The drawback is that it is harder to fix the missiles position with EO/IR.  Radar gives you bearing, range and doppler info very rapidly.  EO/IR needs a bit more processing power and perhaps a laser to do the same thing.

Different take on the same thing.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'd be careful basing sensor performance on the information available there (even though I am quoted by name for some Sea King stuff at that website).  The second link is for a company sales brochure dated 2007.

Copy that;  it was one of the only things I could find open source, which is the level that should be discussed here really.  Everything else would be CG at a minimum.  The only things I know well about MHs are what they look like on EO/IR (and their runways and hotels aren't that great).  8)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Over lunch today workshopped a few ideas with my boss (CSE as well) who is the local radar expert.  Went to the whiteboard and goofed around with a few concepts for an AEW UAV sensor system.  He design solution was that using IR would be a better idea for AEW of a missile attack.  The UAV could be smaller, wide area IR sensors are cheaper and easier to maintain, and with a top down look a missile or aircraft exhaust plume and skin friction would be relatively easy to spot on the neutral cool of the ocean. 

This would give the ship more time to be ready to defend itself even with current sensors and weapons. 

Loss of the UAV wouldn't be as expensive as if a putting AESA on it and smaller UAV could mean a ship could carry more than one. 

The drawback is that it is harder to fix the missiles position with EO/IR.  Radar gives you bearing, range and doppler info very rapidly.  EO/IR needs a bit more processing power and perhaps a laser to do the same thing.

Different take on the same thing.

How about consideration for a combo of both?  Put an undercast layer between the IR sensor and target into the equation and your IR is, well, fairly useless really.  RADAR sees thru the slop (or at least, it does better).

 

[Underway]

How about consideration for a combo of both?  Put an undercast layer between the IR sensor and target into the equation and your IR is, well, fairly useless really.  RADAR sees thru the slop (or at least, it does better).

We discussed that a bit.  Weather would be an issue for IR.  I fell one really needs to get to the calculations to look at designs and their trade offs.

I personally think a AESA built into UAV's skin with a ball mounted EO/IR for RMP would be the best way to go.  Multitask AEW and RMP UAV.  You get the best of both and free up the Cyclone to do its main job and protect the TG from subs.

 

[jollyjacktar]

6 inch or 12 inch?  Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We discussed that a bit.  Weather would be an issue for IR.  I fell one really needs to get to the calculations to look at designs and their trade offs.

I personally think a AESA built into UAV's skin with a ball mounted EO/IR for RMP would be the best way to go.  Multitask AEW and RMP UAV.  You get the best of both and free up the Cyclone to do its main job and protect the TG from subs.

If there was room/weight to spare, you could also put an ESM suite on it and really increase the ESM horizon...

How hard/easy is it to incorporate the 'feeds' into already exists 'stations' on a modern frigate? 

 

[AirDet]

Here's an old idea for using the Cyclone in a similar capacity, with a Lockheed Vigilance Pod (which were never built but were designed for the Crowsnest competition).

For Cyclones deployed on the new CSC that's an interesting idea. However, I doubt a modded Helo would fit thru the hangar doors on a CPF. There isn't much room between the sponson and the door rail.