First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[vonGarvin]

My final point would be that we have spent billions of dollars on Afghanistan for example at a cost of 158 Canadian soldiers with poor to minimal results. We have also spent billions on Aboriginal Affairs with the same overall result.

 

[Tow Tripod]

Techno,
It's an opinion. Not an argument! I'm not arguing with anybody but as a Canadian I want a viable solution to what seems like a hopeless situation. Thank you for time.

 

[Tow Tripod]

Strike,
I was in China last year. What type of tea would you like? All I'm saying is that we should come up with some type solution to this domestic problem and attempt to sort our own house out first.

Like Techno, Thank you for your time.

 

[GAP]

I've always been under the impression that we have been in a long term (generational) plan to educate the new generation to allow that generation to solve the dilemma the reserves are in. There's probably been great leaps, but the converse is that educated natives tend to see the possibilities outside the reserves and move on

:2c:

 

[OldSolduer]

Strike,
I was in China last year. What type of tea would you like? All I'm saying is that we should come up with some type solution to this domestic problem and attempt to sort our own house out first.

Like Techno, Thank you for your time.

And any solution we (the "white" community) will offer will be met with derision and name calling by the current crop of aborginal leaders.

 

[Strike]

All I'm saying is that we should come up with some type solution to this domestic problem and attempt to sort our own house out first.

Unfortunately we live in a global community where we are expected to help out other nations when asked and/or required, so trying to sort out our own problems before even considering going somewhere else is not an option.  Imagine if we had that attitude during earthquakes in Turkey or Haiti or after hurricanes down south.

 

[a_majoor]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but so long as *we* alow the "Indian Industry" to exist and provide the perverse incentive of billions of dollars for nothing in particular to continue to flow, the people who benefit the most will do everything possible (media, cries of racism, occupations, court battles, etc.) to continue to get their hands on our money. (In a similar context, Jerry Pournelle points out there will be poor and unemployed people so long as we pay them to be poor and unemployed, and so long as we pay people to "take care of" poor and unemployed people. In fact, the more we spend "hiring" people to be poor, the more people will apply for the job.)

Tough love will have to come in stages.

Stage one is to account for the money we provide, using third party managers if necessary. IF there is a refusal to be accountable, then we should simply shut off the money. We are halfway there now.

Stage two is to decouple moneies to the native people from the band council. $8,000+/year may not buy a house, but it sure beats having to suckhole to the current crop of reservation leaders in order to get a home or education, or even a few scraps from the table. Frankly, the late and unlamented Kim Jong Il raised that sort of "leadership" to an art form; hardly the sort of example we want to emulate.

Stage three is to provide easy means to evacutate from the reservations, so native people are not trapped in places with no prospects. Functioning reservations will keep their people, but non functional ones should see an exodus (along with money from the "per head" payments).

Stage four is to scrap as much of the laws and regulations as possible that maintain segregation between Canadians based on ethnic background; Apartheid wasn't pretty in ancient Sparta nor 20th century South Africa. Everyone should have the opportunity to own and have unfettered use of their own property as a minimum. If that means annulling ancient treaties, then so be it, we no longer need help against New France or the manifest destiny crowd of the James Madison Administration, and the railway right of ways have been in place for more than a century. Time to move into the 21rst century.

The status quo is unsustainable and no amount of new money will make things better; time to change tracks and go in a different direction.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Give 'em some "Rae days" Bobby, because paying me and my co-workers overtime to work our normal shifts to save money made about as much sense as some of the funding schemes in this thread.



  http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/19/rae-ignores-history-of-neglect

Great Canadian explorer Bob Rae journeys up to the deep north of Ontario over the weekend and discovers a Native community called Attawapiskat living in squalor on the shores of a mammoth bay named James.
"This is a Third World," he cries, as if his eyes are the first to bear witness. "And it is right here. Right here at home."

We are uncertain if he also cried, "Eureka!"
But perhaps he did.
We remind him, therefore, that this should not have been a Jacques Cartier moment.

We remind him, in fact, that he was premier of Ontario at the time former Attawapiskat chief Ignace Gull appeared before a royal commission to talk about appalling living conditions on his northern Cree reserve -- about scores being crammed into poorly-heated huts, about lack of water, about abuse both sexual and physical, about rampant alcoholism, and about how the reserve's youth were killing themselves huffing gasoline fumes.

And it was "right there," right in his own backyard, 20 years ago when he was not only the NDP premier of Ontario but the provincial overlord of Attawapiskat's provincial money.
So spare us if his cries over the weekend don't move us.

Bob Rae did nothing 20 years ago when he could have, and should have.
He ignored Ignace Gull's pleas.
And he is doing nothing now but lay blame at other doorsteps, namely the Harper government's, even though it was largely a Liberal government that did nothing for over the last two decades to alleviate the hell that remains the frozen septic tank of Attawapiskat.

No, to Bob Rae, now interim leader of the Liberal party that failed Attawapiskat so miserably, it is all Stephen Harper's fault.
It was one quote in particular from Rae over the weekend, however, that left us cold.
"We can't go on like this for the next decade or the next 20 years without some real improvements," he said about Attawapiskat.

Why not? He let it go 20 years ago. The Chretien Liberals let it go for 20 years.
If Rae wants to play the blame game, he can start with himself, and then move up the line.

Just don't feign ignorance or innocence.

 

[Rifleman62]

I've always been under the impression that we have been in a long term (generational) plan to educate the new generation to allow that generation to solve the dilemma the reserves are in. There's probably been great leaps, but the converse is that educated natives tend to see the possibilities outside the reserves and move on

Didn't various organizations including churches attempt to educate Indian children in order that they could have the same opportunities as every other child? What happened? Every one of them was abused, and because of that abuse they lost the ability to be parents to the children they conceived. Or should that be the children they reproduced. Children that grew up with the same values and inabilities.

I believe Indians get all their education for free. They can go to university forever if they want.

There are exceptions, individuals and Bands. The West Kelowna and Osoyoos, BC are very, very well off.

What do Canadian taxpayers and the Indians themselves get for at least 8 billion, plus, plus, plus from various sources? The Bands do not operate ships, tanks or planes.

 

[dapaterson]

Thucydides :  Clay Chirky put it best:

Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thucydides :  Clay Chirky put it best:

Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.

That sums up the whole problem.


This reminds me of the Jews during WW2 in a way.

Watching documentaries and movies I always wondered how Jews were exterminated by the thousands and often didn't seem to put up a fight. Sure I saw a movie with that douchebag from friends about jewish resistance fighters in some slum area but for the most part it always seemed like the Jews would put up no resistance and just go along with being exterminated. 


It seems like this is sort of the case with the reserves and band council and money. Not that anyone is being exterminated (though death is caused indirectly) but it's pretty apparent to EVERYONE what is going on.  Why aren't the average reserve joe blow's standing up and saying what the f$%* is going on, where is the money?  Natives in my experience pride themselves on being warriors, a warrior nation, warrior spirit etc..  Threaten to arm border guards and they're going to take up arms, block roads, make scary faces and use violence.  So where are these same warriors. Is not the average native American on one of these reserves willing to stand up for themselves?  Why do they seem like passive sheep allowing themselves to be starved to death while their shepherds are rolling around in $50'000 SUVs living in mansions?

 

[GAP]

Why aren't the average reserve joe blow's standing up and saying what the f$%* is going on, where is the money?

Because they are literally waiting their turn. Most reserves are divided into familial factions. When "your" chief gets elected, it's your faction's turn at the trough....

 

[dapaterson]

Because they are literally waiting their turn. Most reserves are divided into familial factions. When "your" chief gets elected, it's your faction's turn at the trough....

... which is the case in many political systems.  You used to be able to tell which way an area had voted in Nova Scotia by the quality of the roads.  New ashphalt = voted for the government.

 

[OldSolduer]

... which is the case in many political systems.  You used to be able to tell which way an area had voted in Nova Scotia by the quality of the roads.  New ashphalt = voted for the government.

Now they get a new regiment!! 

 

[Edward Campbell]

Now a senior UN official, an American professor from New Mexico named James Anaya weighs in, according to this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawas-handling-of-attawapiskat-crisis-draws-un-rebuke/article2278146/

Ottawa’s handling of Attawapiskat crisis draws UN rebuke

KIM MACKRAEL

OTTAWA— Globe and Mail Update
Published Tuesday, Dec. 20, 2011

A United Nations official had harsh words for Ottawa Tuesday over the housing crisis in Attawapiskat, calling conditions in the first-nations community “dire” and noting the problem appears to be widespread.

“I have been in communication with the Government of Canada to express my deep concern about the dire social and economic condition of the Attawapiskat First Nation,” James Anaya, the United Nations special rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples, said.

“Many of this First Nation’s approximately 1,800 members live in unheated shacks or trailers, with no running water. The problem is particularly serious as winter approaches.”

Attawapiskat, which is located on the edge of James Bay in Northern Ontario, declared a state of emergency this fall over a lack of suitable housing, sparking national and international media attention as observers compared conditions in the community to those found in the world’s poorest countries.

The Conservative government says it has spent about $90-million on the community over the past five years and has blamed Attawapiskat’s problems on financial mismanagement. It placed the community under third party management, angering Chief Theresa Spence and many band members.

The Assembly of First Nations voted unanimously earlier this month to stand by Attawapiskat’s leadership and ask the United Nations to monitor Canada’s actions on the remote reserve.

In a statement published on the United Nations website, Mr. Anaya said other first nations communities in Canada are facing similar problems.

“The social and economic situation of the Attawapiskat seems to represent the condition of many First Nation communities living on reserves throughout Canada, which is allegedly akin to third world conditions,” he wrote.

“Yet, this situation is not representative of non-Aboriginal communities in Canada, a country with overall human rights indicators scoring among the top of all countries in the world.”

Mr. Anaya noted that aboriginal communities face higher rates of poverty, and poorer health, education and employment outcomes, and said he has received reports indicating that first nations communities are systematically under-funded in Canada. “Further, it does not appear that the government is responding adequately to requests for assistance,” he added.

He also scolded the federal government for allegedly resisting efforts by the Canadian Human Rights Commission to examine allegations of discrimination related to funding for first-nations communities.

A spokeswoman for Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan called the letter an inaccurate publicity stunt.

“Anyone who reads the letter will see it lacks credibility,” Michelle Yao wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail. “Our government is focused on the needs of the residents of Attawapiskat – not publicity stunts. We are also focused on addressing deep-rooted issues that have plagued Canada's First Nations communities for generations.”

Ms. Yao did not immediately respond to a question about which parts of the letter the government disagreed with.

Mr. Anaya said he wrote to Ottawa on Monday requesting a response to concerns over reserve funding and more information on what the government is doing to improve conditions.

“I will be monitoring closely the situation of the Attawapiskat First Nation and other aboriginal communities in Canada,” he wrote.

As stated, "Mr. Anaya noted that aboriginal communities face higher rates of poverty, and poorer health, education and employment outcomes ..." which is, by and large, true. But the article also states that "[My Anaya] said he has received reports indicating that first nations communities are systematically under-funded in Canada [and] it does not appear that the government is responding adequately to requests for assistance" which is very highly debatable.

Despite my somewhat jaded views on government communications, I am glad to see the Minister's office is fighting back. Now is the time for some political persuasion; Canadians - to hell with the UN and the world - have to know how much of their money is being spent and how it is being used, or abused.

I repeat: I do not know the right answers, but ...
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[a_majoor]

More about dealing with poverty. It is cultural rather than financial:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286242/when-16-trillion-not-enough-david-french

When Is $16 Trillion Not Enough?
December 19, 2011 5:03 P.M.
By David French 

Last week I had the privilege of participating in a panel discussion at a large local church that was essentially about the role of Christians in the “Occupy” movements (one of the leaders of Occupy Nashville participated) and the proper Christian response to poverty and inequality. I’ve participated in many such discussions over the years, and I’m always struck by the core assumptions of many on the Christian Left: First, that America has not done enough — either charitably or through government programs — to improve the plight of the poor; second, that the right kind of governmental investment will make substantial differences in American poverty; and third, that America’s poor are largely victims of the wrong kind of government policies and individual greed.

For these individuals, the $16 trillion we’ve spent on means-tested welfare since the War on Poverty began represents a grossly inadequate expenditure, and the answer (it’s the same answer with public education, by the way) is more, more, more — more money, more programs, and more taxation. Yet after $16 trillion, we have a different kind of more, more, more — more illegitimacy, more citizens in poverty, and more inequality, with growing stickiness at the bottom.

Over at the The Atlantic, Megan McArdle has been writing an excellent series of posts on poverty (this is one of my favorites) that show both the profound limits of anti-poverty programs and the difficulty of real character change. (“Get married and stay married” is great advice, but in shattered neighborhoods, where are the truly eligible future spouses?) I love this observation:

    As adults they are the products of everything that has happened to them, and everything that they have done, but they are also now exercising free will.  If you assume you know the choice they should make, and that there is some reliable way to entice them to make it, you’re imagining away their humanity, and replacing it with an automaton. Having higher wage jobs available would give people more money which would be a good thing, and it would solve the sort of problems that stem from a simple lack of money.  But it would not turn them into different people. Public policy can modestly improve the incentives and choice sets that poor people face–and it should do those things.  But it cannot remake people into something more to the liking of bourgeois taxpayers.  And it would actually be pretty creepy if it could.

The evangelical world is locked in an often-heated battle over the proper response to continued poverty in America, with much of that battle focused on politics. But I agree with Megan: public policy can modestly improve choices and behaviors, but it can’t “remake” people. That requires an ingredient all too often missing from the poverty debate: individual engagement and investment in the lives of the poor. Can any government program surpass in importance the influence of mentors or, say, foster parents? If poor kids face daunting challenges to good decision-making, can’t additional or replacement role models make a profound difference?

The political problem, of course, is that you can’t mandate and systematize the kind of engagement that makes a large-scale difference. The choice to engage is only meaningful if it’s a real choice motivated by something far more potent than any government program. We can, however, stop defining engagement down. Advocacy isn’t necessarily public service and “fighting for” the poor means much less than actually meeting the poor where they are. Simply put, a protest is a poor substitute for a relationship.

 

[ballz]

I am glad this issue came up the way it did when the Conservatives have a majority. This may be the turning point where Canadians come down hard and stop getting scammed.

I think PM Harper's approach, demanding more accountability and insisting it is required if there are ever to be any improvements, not to mention the clearly corrupt Theresa Spence and friends being the "face" of the problem, is resonating well with Canadians. I *hope* it doesn't just go away, I *hope* it's finally dealt with.

 

[Strike]

I find it interesting that no other 'Individual' bands have come out in defence of Attawapiskat and been crying foul.  Perhaps because they:
A) don't want to the attention brought to their own band leadership, or
B) they agree with the government's decision to include an independent third party but, due to cultural sensitivities, can't vocalize this.

 

[George Wallace]

Look at this.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act

Sympatico News

UN envoy criticizes government over Attawapiskat

20/12/2011 7:23:38 PM


CTVNews.ca Staff
LINK

The United Nations special envoy for aboriginal peoples has criticized Canada's federal government for "the dire social and economic condition" of residents in the beleaguered community of Attawapiskat.

James Anaya, the UN special rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples, issued a statement Tuesday saying he wrote to the Harper government on Monday to express his concerns about the reserve, which is dealing with a dire housing crisis.

"I have been in communication with the government of Canada to express my deep concern about the dire social and economic condition of the Attawapiskat First Nation, which exemplifies the conditions of many aboriginal communities in the country," Anaya said in the statement issued from Geneva.

In his letter to Canadian officials, he asked for more information about funding, policies and respect for human rights.

"The social and economic situation of the Attawapiskat (community) seems to represent the condition of many First Nation communities living on reserves throughout Canada, which is allegedly akin to Third World conditions," he said.

The Assembly of First Nations appealed to the UN earlier this month to investigate conditions in Attawapiskat, as well as whether the federal government was meeting its obligations under both international and national treaties.

The government immediately fired back at Anaya, accusing him of spreading misinformation to grab headlines. Michelle Yao, a spokesperson for Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan, said that among other inaccuracies, the letter is addressed for former foreign affairs minister Lawrence Cannon, who was defeated in the May election.

"Anyone who reads the letter will see it lacks credibility," Yao said in a statement.

"Our government is focused on the needs of the residents of Attawapiskat -- not publicity stunts."

A local health centre is being retrofitted to serve as temporary housing, and the federal government has purchased 22 new modular homes.

Duncan has been at odds with community leaders in Attawapiskat for weeks, after Chief Theresa Spence declared a state of emergency over a housing crisis that has pushed dozens of families out of mould-infested homes and into makeshift shelters such as tents and un-insulated cabins.

Duncan sent a third-party manager to the community over concerns that $90 million in federal funding had been misspent, but Spence and band council members argued the band's finances were not the central issue and were laid bare in quarterly reports.

While Anaya has no authority to force sovereign governments to enact or change policies, he is tasked with probing the living conditions of indigenous peoples around the world. He can issue reports that contain recommendations for improving the lives of indigenous peoples, but can also spur governments to action by shaming them in front of the international community.

Anaya said despite the fact Canadians enjoy some of the best living conditions in the world, aboriginal peoples often endure higher unemployment and poverty rates, less education and poorer health.

Anaya said he would like to hear a response to his letter from the federal government and said he will continue to monitor the situation in Attawapiskat.

NDP MP Charlie Angus, whose riding includes Attawapiskat and who has publicized the community's plight in the House of Commons, invited Anaya to Canada so he could view the situation for himself.

"This crisis has been going on for months," Angus said in a news release. "Families will be spending winter in tents in Attawapiskat and the Conservatives just don't seem to care. Conservative inaction is a disgrace and giving Canada a black eye in front of the world."

The Canadian Red Cross has responded to the crisis in the community by delivering emergency supplies, including generators, blankets and warm clothing. The agency has also raised about $300,000 to purchase further supplies.

LINK





Perhaps the UN should take over the financial caregiving of the people in Attawapiskat and then they can revisit their comments.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Look at this.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act

LINK





Perhaps the UN should take over the financial caregiving of the people in Attawapiskat and then they can revisit their comments.

See my comments on the same story from about 18 hours ago.