OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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my72jeep said:
And don't ask them to smoke outside like the rest of us.
First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)
- Thread starter UberCree
- Start date
And don't ask them to smoke outside like the rest of us.
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Just appalling. A First Nations Chief earning nearly a million dollars after taxes for leading a band of just 80 people, when his actual salary should only be around $84,000.
VanCity Buzz
VanCity Buzz
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Calgary region Tsuu T'ina chief publically announced today that he will not disclose any of his figures or any of those in his council.
Tsuu T'ina has 1500 people registered (who knows how many actually reside there) and received $1.8mil last year in just "economic development" funds
Tsuu T'ina has 1500 people registered (who knows how many actually reside there) and received $1.8mil last year in just "economic development" funds
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Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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That is an "inherited case" from the Alcan days. Having dealt with the Alcan senior management I can imagine the claim has some substance.
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OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Not too sure about the routing of pipelines but could Keystone be routed around this reservation?
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...and then not hire any of those citizens of a sovereign nation to work on it.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Kat Stevens said:
That thought went through my mind just after I hit post.....
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Jim Seggie said:
Typically, when we see this kind of rhetoric and posturing, it's simply the band councils that are making noise in order to extort more money from the principals. The rest of the band fall in line so they won't be blackballed, cut out of the meager profits, left over after the council has its share first.
Everyone has their price, and the aboriginals learned a long time ago that if the white man wants something bad enough, there's no limit to what he'll pay.
- Reaction score
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recceguy said:
I am old enough to remember the days when you would hear Indians say they liked the residential schools. You never hear that anymore. Doesn't fit the narrative.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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I have heard the same, some schools were good, others were bad and the people in charge failed those that went to the badly run ones.
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All these different organizations, tribes, and now Ontario/Quebec who are against economic development/pipelines don't seem to realize where their provincial welfare comes from.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/flurry-of-bc-court-battles-threatens-to-drive-away-investment/article21717760/
Flurry of B.C. court battles threaten to drive away investment
VANCOUVER — The Globe and Mail- Mark Hume - Published Saturday, Nov. 22 2014, 2:38 PM EST
A flurry of court cases has tied up more than $25-billion worth of resource projects this year as First Nations, environmental groups and others battle pipelines, mines, a dam and a coal port – a situation that some observers fear will drive away investment.
“Well, it’s not new, but arguably it’s intensified,” Jock Finlayson, executive vice-president and chief policy officer for the Business Council of B.C., said of the legal roadblocks.
Mr. Finlayson said the province has a long history of court battles over resource developments, but he worries British Columbia’s reputation could suffer if the wave of litigation continues.
“Even though it’s not a new phenomenon . . . it is getting more complex and costly over time – so it does hurt us,” he said.
First Nations that say they were not adequately consulted on developments, and non-governmental organizations challenging federal or provincial environmental permits, make up the bulk of the 38 cases, a review of court records by The Globe and Mail has shown. But municipal governments are also bringing cases, and resource companies are using the courts too, to get injunctions against protesters.
Mr. Finlayson said he is not critical of groups that take action to protect their legal rights, but too many projects could be entangled in court for too long.
“People outside the province, whether they are investors, institutional money managers or actual corporations . . . might look at B.C. and say it’s too difficult to do business there,” he said. “We’re not there yet, because as I look at the amount of investment under way, clearly we’re continuing to attract our share, but I do think there’s some risk around it.”
Ravina Bains, associate director of aboriginal policy at the Fraser Institute, said a recent survey of mining companies shows executives in that industry are already wary of B.C.
“The No. 1 reason why investors are reluctant to invest in B.C. is because of the First Nations land-uncertainty question,” she said. “It’s clearly having an impact because this is an issue that’s top of mind for potential mining developers.”
Ms. Bains said a Supreme Court of Canada decision this summer that confirmed the Tsilhqot’in First Nation have title over a sprawling territory in central B.C. has spurred more court action from others.
“I think that judgment was a real game-changer. It was historic . . . it provided an example for different First Nation communities to use the court system versus actually negotiating with different levels of government,” she said.
Gwen Barlee, policy director of the environmental group, the Wilderness Committee, said one of the reasons for all the legal action is that the government is not doing enough to protect the environment.
“I think people are losing faith in the system and they don’t think there’s appropriate checks and balances with provincial environmental laws or federal environmental laws,” she said. “So when those [resource project] decisions come down, people are saying, ‘We don’t think that those were measured and appropriate decisions and we’re going to go to court because of that.’”
Chris Tollefson, executive director of the Environmental Law Centre at the University of Victoria, said one way to restore public confidence and cut down on the litigation would be for the province to get out of the agreement that authorizes the National Energy Board, a federal agency, to approve projects such as the Northern Gateway and Trans Mountain pipeline proposals. Prior to 2010, B.C. held its own environmental hearings, but in seeking to streamline the process, the province handed off authority for environmental reviews to Ottawa on some big energy projects. This limited the province’s option to block projects it objected to.
Mr. Tollefson, who is representing the conservation group BC Nature in two Federal Court of Appeal cases related to the Northern Gateway proposal, said NGOs and First Nations think hard before deciding to go to court because it is so expensive.
“It depends on the number of days it is in court and how much work is involved in bringing the matter forward, but . . . I would say in the average case you are looking at a liability of between $25,000 and $100,000 easily,” he said. If the groups win, they can recover costs – but if they lose they can get stuck not only with their own legal bills, but a significant portion of the costs incurred by companies or governments to defend the suits.
“It’s a very serious commitment,” Mr. Tollefson said of the decision to go to court.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/flurry-of-bc-court-battles-threatens-to-drive-away-investment/article21717760/
Flurry of B.C. court battles threaten to drive away investment
VANCOUVER — The Globe and Mail- Mark Hume - Published Saturday, Nov. 22 2014, 2:38 PM EST
A flurry of court cases has tied up more than $25-billion worth of resource projects this year as First Nations, environmental groups and others battle pipelines, mines, a dam and a coal port – a situation that some observers fear will drive away investment.
“Well, it’s not new, but arguably it’s intensified,” Jock Finlayson, executive vice-president and chief policy officer for the Business Council of B.C., said of the legal roadblocks.
Mr. Finlayson said the province has a long history of court battles over resource developments, but he worries British Columbia’s reputation could suffer if the wave of litigation continues.
“Even though it’s not a new phenomenon . . . it is getting more complex and costly over time – so it does hurt us,” he said.
First Nations that say they were not adequately consulted on developments, and non-governmental organizations challenging federal or provincial environmental permits, make up the bulk of the 38 cases, a review of court records by The Globe and Mail has shown. But municipal governments are also bringing cases, and resource companies are using the courts too, to get injunctions against protesters.
Mr. Finlayson said he is not critical of groups that take action to protect their legal rights, but too many projects could be entangled in court for too long.
“People outside the province, whether they are investors, institutional money managers or actual corporations . . . might look at B.C. and say it’s too difficult to do business there,” he said. “We’re not there yet, because as I look at the amount of investment under way, clearly we’re continuing to attract our share, but I do think there’s some risk around it.”
Ravina Bains, associate director of aboriginal policy at the Fraser Institute, said a recent survey of mining companies shows executives in that industry are already wary of B.C.
“The No. 1 reason why investors are reluctant to invest in B.C. is because of the First Nations land-uncertainty question,” she said. “It’s clearly having an impact because this is an issue that’s top of mind for potential mining developers.”
Ms. Bains said a Supreme Court of Canada decision this summer that confirmed the Tsilhqot’in First Nation have title over a sprawling territory in central B.C. has spurred more court action from others.
“I think that judgment was a real game-changer. It was historic . . . it provided an example for different First Nation communities to use the court system versus actually negotiating with different levels of government,” she said.
Gwen Barlee, policy director of the environmental group, the Wilderness Committee, said one of the reasons for all the legal action is that the government is not doing enough to protect the environment.
“I think people are losing faith in the system and they don’t think there’s appropriate checks and balances with provincial environmental laws or federal environmental laws,” she said. “So when those [resource project] decisions come down, people are saying, ‘We don’t think that those were measured and appropriate decisions and we’re going to go to court because of that.’”
Chris Tollefson, executive director of the Environmental Law Centre at the University of Victoria, said one way to restore public confidence and cut down on the litigation would be for the province to get out of the agreement that authorizes the National Energy Board, a federal agency, to approve projects such as the Northern Gateway and Trans Mountain pipeline proposals. Prior to 2010, B.C. held its own environmental hearings, but in seeking to streamline the process, the province handed off authority for environmental reviews to Ottawa on some big energy projects. This limited the province’s option to block projects it objected to.
Mr. Tollefson, who is representing the conservation group BC Nature in two Federal Court of Appeal cases related to the Northern Gateway proposal, said NGOs and First Nations think hard before deciding to go to court because it is so expensive.
“It depends on the number of days it is in court and how much work is involved in bringing the matter forward, but . . . I would say in the average case you are looking at a liability of between $25,000 and $100,000 easily,” he said. If the groups win, they can recover costs – but if they lose they can get stuck not only with their own legal bills, but a significant portion of the costs incurred by companies or governments to defend the suits.
“It’s a very serious commitment,” Mr. Tollefson said of the decision to go to court.
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http://arizonarepublic.az.newsmemory.com/?fod=1111111&cnum=3952677&token=54033fd2033c04bbcdc54544361e07b1&selDate=20141124&licenseType=paid_subscriber
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It seems like the various anti capitalist protestors and movements have read of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else" in reverse. Their actions are creating a huge sea of "Dead Capital" where British Columbia used to be.
One can only wonder what the real motives behind this evidently self defeating program is.
One can only wonder what the real motives behind this evidently self defeating program is.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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"one way to ... cut down on the litigation would be..."
...to put funding of anything which serves obstructionist organizations at the bottom of a list contingent on targets for resource-driven revenues being achieved. Let them pay the price first and see how strong their resolve is to make the sacrifices for which they call.
...to put funding of anything which serves obstructionist organizations at the bottom of a list contingent on targets for resource-driven revenues being achieved. Let them pay the price first and see how strong their resolve is to make the sacrifices for which they call.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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BC is wary of the mining industry after stuff like this
The main problem with mining is that almost all the "easy" deposits have been depleted and the up front capital costs to start a new project are staggering. One project is proposing a 14km long tunnel under a mountain just to get access to the deposit and that tunnel would have to support truck traffic, slurry pipelines and power lines. http://www.novagold.com/section.asp?pageid=22238 KSM just was approved by sort of in the same boat, the upfront cost are crazy http://seabridgegold.net/ksm_engineer.php
Most of the bands are opposed to the oil sands pipelines, Coastal FN's generally support the LNG export projects http://www.thenorthernview.com/news/286227721.html
But bands like the Fort Nelson FN have significant issues with the extraction side http://www.legassembly.gov.yk.ca/pdf/rbhf_FNFN-Presentation.pdf
I would say that the majority of bands in BC want development, but the current pace of development is overwhelming them and even the bands that want to be engaged can't meet the demand for their time to consult. I seen with my own eyes one bands very committed team walking around like zombies because at least 7 different LNG export companies all want to meet with them at the same time.
The BC Liberals pushing Site C right now was a very poor strategic decision as it pushed the FN's into a confrontation they weren't looking for. The Federal government in Ottawa has been ignoring FN consultation in BC for the most part despite warnings from the regional departments heads and the panicked response sending out he Ministers at the last minute just showed how unaware Ottawa is. the Legal ground is very different here then other parts of Canada. The FN's don't agree on their own boundaries, very little of BC is covered by Treaties and those that are can be ambiguous and badly worded.
What the natives don't see coming is that the population of BC is changing and the new immigrants will not care about FN issues and when the politicians sense that their is no political capital in pursuing Treaties, the issue will grind to a halt on the government side. The bands are challenged by many being to small to be economically viable and to remote to sustain economic livelihoods for the young. While the demographic i generally young, there is a schism forming between the 'purebloods" and the "mixed Indians" which is going to eventually upset the grip on power that certain families in each band have. Toss in the animosity between hereditary chiefs, Elder councils , elected back councils, FN development corporations and the warrior society (plus gang issues) and things can really get weird.
The main problem with mining is that almost all the "easy" deposits have been depleted and the up front capital costs to start a new project are staggering. One project is proposing a 14km long tunnel under a mountain just to get access to the deposit and that tunnel would have to support truck traffic, slurry pipelines and power lines. http://www.novagold.com/section.asp?pageid=22238 KSM just was approved by sort of in the same boat, the upfront cost are crazy http://seabridgegold.net/ksm_engineer.php
Most of the bands are opposed to the oil sands pipelines, Coastal FN's generally support the LNG export projects http://www.thenorthernview.com/news/286227721.html
But bands like the Fort Nelson FN have significant issues with the extraction side http://www.legassembly.gov.yk.ca/pdf/rbhf_FNFN-Presentation.pdf
I would say that the majority of bands in BC want development, but the current pace of development is overwhelming them and even the bands that want to be engaged can't meet the demand for their time to consult. I seen with my own eyes one bands very committed team walking around like zombies because at least 7 different LNG export companies all want to meet with them at the same time.
The BC Liberals pushing Site C right now was a very poor strategic decision as it pushed the FN's into a confrontation they weren't looking for. The Federal government in Ottawa has been ignoring FN consultation in BC for the most part despite warnings from the regional departments heads and the panicked response sending out he Ministers at the last minute just showed how unaware Ottawa is. the Legal ground is very different here then other parts of Canada. The FN's don't agree on their own boundaries, very little of BC is covered by Treaties and those that are can be ambiguous and badly worded.
What the natives don't see coming is that the population of BC is changing and the new immigrants will not care about FN issues and when the politicians sense that their is no political capital in pursuing Treaties, the issue will grind to a halt on the government side. The bands are challenged by many being to small to be economically viable and to remote to sustain economic livelihoods for the young. While the demographic i generally young, there is a schism forming between the 'purebloods" and the "mixed Indians" which is going to eventually upset the grip on power that certain families in each band have. Toss in the animosity between hereditary chiefs, Elder councils , elected back councils, FN development corporations and the warrior society (plus gang issues) and things can really get weird.
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The WFN pretty well own all the malls (lots of malls) in West Kelowna, BC
WFN celebrates success
by Ragnar Haagen - Mar 31, 2015
While many First Nations across Canada continue to face significant hardships, Westbank First Nation continues to buck that trend.
WFN celebrates 10 years of self-governance this week.
But it was only through a long process of negotiation and community consultation that the possibility became law on May 6, 2004, and came into force on April 1, 2005.
Many First Nation reserves, especially in Canada's North, lack proper infrastructure, everyday services and the quality of life most Canadians take for granted. Not so in Westbank, where the band has developed lucrative residential, commercial and recreation properties, making it one of the most prosperous First Nations in Canada.
“I am proud of how far our community has come over the past 10 years,” Chief Robert Louie said Tuesday.
“Self-government has opened doors to opportunities that the community would not have seen if we were still governed by Canada. Not only has self-government increased the accountability and transparency of the WFN government as well as bringing a great sense of pride to our community, but it has also resulted in increased opportunities for our members, increased property values and an improved standard of living.”
In fact, property values have skyrocketed over the past 10 years, with the Westbank First Nation now ranked 61st in the province for assessed value, out of 162 B.C. municipalities.
The value of band land has nearly quadrupled during that time, from $398 million to more than $1.4 billion, according to the WFN.
The band says they've also contributed $80 million of annual fiscal revenue to the federal and provincial governments through the generation of sales tax, personal income tax and corporate tax on Westbank First Nation Lands, $500 million annually to the local economy, and remains one of the largest employers on the Westside.
And down the road, South:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/
How a B.C. native band went from poverty to prosperity
Jake MacDonald- 29 May 14
The Osoyoos Indian Band is arguably the most business-minded First Nation in Canada.
So what’s the secret to their success?
WFN celebrates success
by Ragnar Haagen - Mar 31, 2015
While many First Nations across Canada continue to face significant hardships, Westbank First Nation continues to buck that trend.
WFN celebrates 10 years of self-governance this week.
But it was only through a long process of negotiation and community consultation that the possibility became law on May 6, 2004, and came into force on April 1, 2005.
Many First Nation reserves, especially in Canada's North, lack proper infrastructure, everyday services and the quality of life most Canadians take for granted. Not so in Westbank, where the band has developed lucrative residential, commercial and recreation properties, making it one of the most prosperous First Nations in Canada.
“I am proud of how far our community has come over the past 10 years,” Chief Robert Louie said Tuesday.
“Self-government has opened doors to opportunities that the community would not have seen if we were still governed by Canada. Not only has self-government increased the accountability and transparency of the WFN government as well as bringing a great sense of pride to our community, but it has also resulted in increased opportunities for our members, increased property values and an improved standard of living.”
In fact, property values have skyrocketed over the past 10 years, with the Westbank First Nation now ranked 61st in the province for assessed value, out of 162 B.C. municipalities.
The value of band land has nearly quadrupled during that time, from $398 million to more than $1.4 billion, according to the WFN.
The band says they've also contributed $80 million of annual fiscal revenue to the federal and provincial governments through the generation of sales tax, personal income tax and corporate tax on Westbank First Nation Lands, $500 million annually to the local economy, and remains one of the largest employers on the Westside.
And down the road, South:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/
How a B.C. native band went from poverty to prosperity
Jake MacDonald- 29 May 14
The Osoyoos Indian Band is arguably the most business-minded First Nation in Canada.
So what’s the secret to their success?
