First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[daftandbarmy]

Didn't say it was. The point is people are doing the unceded lands bit for everywhere including those that were ceded just because it became the flavour of the day.

Speaking of which, VIU takes the cake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1525198115304636416

 

[Jarnhamar]

Speaking of which, VIU takes the cake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1525198115304636416

Whoa. They should protest and block off some roads over that one.

 

[YZT580]

Didn't say it was. The point is people are doing the unceded lands bit for everywhere including those that were ceded just because it became the flavour of the day.

and when you look at the population at the time the treaties and agreements were made there is very little justification. I vote for Colin. Make them all citizens of Canada, give them the title deeds to their homes and the deed the unoccupied land to the tribe and walk out with a have at 'er as the door closes behind you.

 

[OldSolduer]

Didn't say it was. The point is people are doing the unceded lands bit for everywhere including those that were ceded just because it became the flavour of the day.

Conrad Black has an opinion on those “unceded” lands….

 

[GK .Dundas]

Conrad Black has an opinion on those “unceded” lands….

For those of you hiding in caves for the past half century . Conrad Black has an opinion on just about everything.
Which he will happily explain to you with great vigor....and verbiage.

 

[lenaitch]

and when you look at the population at the time the treaties and agreements were made there is very little justification. I vote for Colin. Make them all citizens of Canada, give them the title deeds to their homes and the deed the unoccupied land to the tribe and walk out with a have at 'er as the door closes behind you.

Some would argue that they occupied the "unoccupied" land before we occupied it, and they want it back. Others would argue that they were compensated for said land at the time of treaty. Some have argued that the compensation was insufficient and has been, or is being re-negotiated at 'more current' value. One problem is: do we go back to court every hundred years or so an 're-valuate' the compensation?

 

[YZT580]

Some would argue that they occupied the "unoccupied" land before we occupied it, and they want it back. Others would argue that they were compensated for said land at the time of treaty. Some have argued that the compensation was insufficient and has been, or is being re-negotiated at 'more current' value. One problem is: do we go back to court every hundred years or so an 're-valuate' the compensation?

somewhere in the distant past my Saxon family had significant land holdings in the vicinity of Nottingham, or so the story goes. I wonder if I can get backpay

 

[CountDC]

Well in the distant past my ancestors were King Edward of England and King James of Scotland so I think a lot of people owe me some compensation.

 

[The Bread Guy]

somewhere in the distant past my Saxon family had significant land holdings in the vicinity of Nottingham, or so the story goes. I wonder if I can get backpay

Well in the distant past my ancestors were King Edward of England and King James of Scotland so I think a lot of people owe me some compensation.

Either of your people have a Treaty signed by the Crown saying, "hey, if you let us do what we want, we'll take care of you"?

 

[OldSolduer]

Some would argue that they occupied the "unoccupied" land before we occupied it, and they want it back. Others would argue that they were compensated for said land at the time of treaty. Some have argued that the compensation was insufficient and has been, or is being re-negotiated at 'more current' value. One problem is: do we go back to court every hundred years or so an 're-valuate' the compensation?

So was there a census conducted to ascertain who and how many occupied what land?

Well in the distant past my ancestors were King Edward of England and King James of Scotland so I think a lot of people owe me some compensation.

SO Mr - you owe me dude! I am dead certain Robert The Bruce is a distant ancestor as is William Wallace!!

 

[YZT580]

Either of your people have a Treaty signed by the Crown saying, "hey, if you let us do what we want, we'll take care of you"?

no, but they weren't executed so I figure we are ahead in the game

 

[daftandbarmy]

Some would argue that they occupied the "unoccupied" land before we occupied it, and they want it back. Others would argue that they were compensated for said land at the time of treaty. Some have argued that the compensation was insufficient and has been, or is being re-negotiated at 'more current' value. One problem is: do we go back to court every hundred years or so an 're-valuate' the compensation?

'Strength of claim' enters the chat...

What does the duty to consult First Nations, Inuit and Métis mean?​

And why some advocates say Canada needs to move from consultation to consent​

The federal government developed a lengthy step-by-step guide for federal officials on how to fulfil the duty to consult. The first steps consider the adverse impact on rights and strength of claim of said rights, which determines the level of consultation required.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/duty-to-consult-first-nations-m%C3%A9tis-inuit-1.7113602

 

[Quirky]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/duty-to-consult-first-nations-m%C3%A9tis-inuit-1.7113602

The requirement applies to the federal, provincial and territorial governments and encompasses a wide range of government activities from regulatory review boards to licensing and permits but is most apparent on projects with impacts on the environment and Indigenous Peoples' access to land, water and resources.

How many Indigenous peoples where these projects are planned still live off the land?

 

[daftandbarmy]

How many Indigenous peoples where these projects are planned still live off the land?

Simple answer? All of them.

 

[YZT580]

Simple answer? All of them.

too true and the same people that push for renewables and elimination of carbon-based fuels are the bleeding hearts who declare that we are trespassing. They also took away much of the different groups' incomes by boycotting furs. Close friends used to spend most of the winter north of Uranium City up until the late 60's early 70's. Fur industry cratered about then and took much of the indigenous income with it

 

[The Bread Guy]

"The Federalist Dance" on water legislation for First Nations ....

Alberta, Ontario don't want feds to reintroduce First Nations safe drinking water law

Environment ministers in Alberta and Ontario don't want the federal government to reintroduce the safe drinking water law for First Nations.

www.aptnnews.ca

Minister planning to table First Nations water bill despite provincial opposition

OTTAWA - The federal minister of Indigenous services says her government plans to reintroduce legislation to e...

lethbridgenewsnow.com

Ontario environment minister apologizes for 'confusion' over clean water bill letter

Ontario's environment minister has apologized to First Nation chiefs for any "confusion" his letter caused when he asked the federal government to not reintroduce a bill that would enshrine clean drinking water rights in law.But many First Nations are not accepting what they call a meaningless...

ca.news.yahoo.com

Meanwhile, on that whole big projects thing ....

First Nations launch legal challenge against Ontario, federal bills 5 and C-5

TORONTO - Nine First Nations in Ontario are asking a court to declare a pair of federal and provincial laws meant to fast-track infrastructure projects unconstitutional and are seeking an

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

First Nations Launching Major Constitutional Challenge to Kill Bill 5, the Ford Government's Megadevelopment Law and Bill C5, Canada's Megaprojects Law

/CNW/ - Several First Nations from Ontario have brought fast track litigation in Superior Court to Kill Bills 5 and C5 on the basis that they severely threaten...

www.newswire.ca

Chiefs of Ontario say Ottawa acting unfairly in major projects meeting Thursday

OTTAWA - The Chiefs of Ontario say Ottawa is levelling an unfair playing field for chiefs in a meeting planned with Prime Minister Mark Carney on Thursday to discuss the

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

The 9 First Nations in question are located all over Ontario ....

• Alderville
• Apitipi Anicinapek (used to be known as Wahgoshig)
• Aroland
• Attawapiskat
• Fort Albany
• Ginoogaming
• Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug (AKA Big Trout Lake - current Chief spent a bit of time in jail with some others in the early 2000's protesting against proposed mineral exploration in the area - got sorted out by the company giving up its mining claims, and Ontario giving the company $5M)
• Oneida Nation of the Thames
• Wabauskang First Nation

Marked in stars here ....

 

[OldSolduer]

too true and the same people that push for renewables and elimination of carbon-based fuels are the bleeding hearts who declare that we are trespassing. They also took away much of the different groups' incomes by boycotting furs. Close friends used to spend most of the winter north of Uranium City up until the late 60's early 70's. Fur industry cratered about then and took much of the indigenous income with it

It must be a chore to be an activist....not knowing how your stupid blind acceptance of some watery tart's views (Bardot) on fur would condemn a people to poverty.

Yes I tossed that MP reference in on purpose.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

"The Federalist Dance" on water legislation for First Nations ....

Alberta, Ontario don't want feds to reintroduce First Nations safe drinking water law

Environment ministers in Alberta and Ontario don't want the federal government to reintroduce the safe drinking water law for First Nations.

www.aptnnews.ca

Minister planning to table First Nations water bill despite provincial opposition

OTTAWA - The federal minister of Indigenous services says her government plans to reintroduce legislation to e...

lethbridgenewsnow.com

Ontario environment minister apologizes for 'confusion' over clean water bill letter

Ontario's environment minister has apologized to First Nation chiefs for any "confusion" his letter caused when he asked the federal government to not reintroduce a bill that would enshrine clean drinking water rights in law.But many First Nations are not accepting what they call a meaningless...

ca.news.yahoo.com

Meanwhile, on that whole big projects thing ....

First Nations launch legal challenge against Ontario, federal bills 5 and C-5

TORONTO - Nine First Nations in Ontario are asking a court to declare a pair of federal and provincial laws meant to fast-track infrastructure projects unconstitutional and are seeking an

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

First Nations Launching Major Constitutional Challenge to Kill Bill 5, the Ford Government's Megadevelopment Law and Bill C5, Canada's Megaprojects Law

/CNW/ - Several First Nations from Ontario have brought fast track litigation in Superior Court to Kill Bills 5 and C5 on the basis that they severely threaten...

www.newswire.ca

Chiefs of Ontario say Ottawa acting unfairly in major projects meeting Thursday

OTTAWA - The Chiefs of Ontario say Ottawa is levelling an unfair playing field for chiefs in a meeting planned with Prime Minister Mark Carney on Thursday to discuss the

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

The 9 First Nations in question are located all over Ontario ....

• Alderville
• Apitipi Anicinapek (used to be known as Wahgoshig)
• Aroland
• Attawapiskat
• Fort Albany
• Ginoogaming
• Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug (AKA Big Trout Lake - current Chief spent a bit of time in jail with some others in the early 2000's protesting against proposed mineral exploration in the area - got sorted out by the company giving up its mining claims, and Ontario giving the company $5M)
• Oneida Nation of the Thames
• Wabauskang First Nation

Marked in stars here ....
View attachment 94659

Bands are changing to a "We need economic activity" model and companies with good stewardship track records will end up doing well. If you compare logging and mining practices from the 1980's to today, it's night and day and the activists never give industry any credit for making the changes. Some bands will not want roads and mineral extraction near them, but others do. Focus on getting the roads to the supportive bands and the others will eventually follow as they see the connected bands flourish. At the same time, beef up native policing to prevent gangs from getting a foothold in the now connected communities.

 

[lenaitch]

Bands are changing to a "We need economic activity" model and companies with good stewardship track records will end up doing well. If you compare logging and mining practices from the 1980's to today, it's night and day and the activists never give industry any credit for making the changes. Some bands will not want roads and mineral extraction near them, but others do. Focus on getting the roads to the supportive bands and the others will eventually follow as they see the connected bands flourish. At the same time, beef up native policing to prevent gangs from getting a foothold in the now connected communities.

I suspect you are right to a significant degree. No doubt many of the FNs are using the 'duty to consult' and 'free, prior and informed consent' obligations as a negotiation platform. At the end of the day, most, but not all, FNs have a price. The question becomes; is it a gift that keeps giving. Both levels of government sink a lot of money into public services and infrastructure to areas that, by their very nature, have no tax base to provide or even contribute.

While it is true that some companies have a successful track record in negotiating with FNs, the government can't use them as proxies to satisfy its obligations.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

While it is true that some companies have a successful track record in negotiating with FNs, the government can't use them as proxies to satisfy its obligations.

Yes and no. The government can cut a deal with the company to provide revenue or services directly to the band in lieu of the government, but the Crown fiduciary duty to oversea and ensure the obligations are met does not go away.

If the Crown can get the company to fully/partial fund roads, transmission lines to remote communities, that can be part of the consultations and I have seen where the company provided power to a nearby community as part of the impact agreement.