Forces struggling to recruit...

[Mike Baker]

Anybody here remember courses BEFORE the Human Rights Act?  Back when they could and did occasionally strike you, insult your parentage, etcetera?

It was REALLY like that?!?! I knew there were some bad things that went on (i.e. shooting soldiers who never went over the walls in WW1, for example), but not in the more modern CF.

 

[Roy Harding]

It was REALLY like that?!?! I knew there were some bad things that went on (i.e. shooting soldiers who never went over the walls in WW1, for example), but not in the more modern CF.

It was really like that, as late as 1984 when I took my CLC (Combat Leader's Course - what the PLQ used to be, sorta) - the last course through the Battle School before the Human Rights Act took effect - the instructors knew what was coming and made hay while the sun still shined.  The striking bit wasn't common - but it wasn't rare either.

 

[Mike Baker]

It was really like that, as late as 1984 when I took my CLC (Combat Leader's Course - what the PLQ used to be, sorta) - the last course through the Battle School before the Human Rights Act took effect - the instructors knew what was coming and made hay while the sun still shined.  The striking bit wasn't common - but it wasn't rare either.

Wow, I never knew any of that before. Thanks for enlightening me Roy.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

What parts of military culture do you see as changing?

Well let's face it our culture largely represents the civilian mainstream culture that was...i.e. designed by and for white anglo saxon males.
Our food services will probably change, our messes, our chapels, our holidays......etc etc.
We'll still have the same mandate but we will be different.
I'm not advocating this...I'm gazing into a crystal ball and I think that given the trends our civilian and military culture will change. As pointed out, it already has. There were no women on ships or in trenches when I joined...very few French Canadians in the Navy,,,,no visible minorities etc.

 

[Roy Harding]

I failed to mention the no women in Cbt or CSS units and ships.  That was a BIG change (and after my initial resistance to the idea, I believe a generally GOOD one).

I wouldn't want to predict what the future changes will be either - my crystal ball is currently on the fritz, but I do know there WILL be change - some subtle, some not so subtle.  And I agree with In Hoc Signo - the mandate won't change.

 

[TCBF]

I am of the opinion that we shouldn't be screening out applicants at the "barrack's gate" so to speak.   If they can walk to the gate under their own power, aren't coughing up a lung, can see the dotted line and sign on it then I think you should let'em in.  Put a hat and a pair of boots on him or her and start the new entrant becoming familiar with the RSM.  In the next 2-6 weeks both the new entrant and the CF will become very familiar with each other and determine whether or not there is a suitable relationship there.  In the mean time low grade security clearances, criminal and financial checks can be run.  At the end of the "probation" the candidate will know enough about the system to know if they want to stay and the system will know if the candidate is acceptable as is or is worth "improving" to meet requirements or even if it is worth "waiving" some requirements to get this candidate.

There is too much competition for good help these days.  Catch them while you can I say.  Don't give them one more excuse/reason NOT to join. 

Adjust the training, and access to classified positions, accordingly.

- To do this under our current legislative umbrella invites medical pension fraud on a massive scale - which is exactly what is happening now.  We need a probationary initial contract .  If the person becomes injured during that time and cannot finish training - they are released.  If a previous medical/psych condition prevents them from completing trg - they are released.  Word the contract so VAC is the supporting program only after initial trg is completed - WCB before that.  We should not have untrainables milking the system for three years awaiting a med/psych release.

 

[Greymatters]

- To do this under our current legislative umbrella invites medical pension fraud on a massive scale - which is exactly what is happening now.  We need a probationary initial contract .  If the person becomes injured during that time and cannot finish training - they are released.  If a previous medical/psych condition prevents them from completing trg - they are released.  Word the contract so VAC is the supporting program only after initial trg is completed - WCB before that.  We should not have untrainables milking the system for three years awaiting a med/psych release.

An excellent suggestion...

 

[Kirkhill]

As Bane said recently "You learn something new everyday".

Thanks TCBF.

 

[Greymatters]

Hell - most of us who're in longer than a decade ago HAVE seen it.

Anybody here remember courses BEFORE the Human Rights Act?  Back when they could and did occasionally strike you, insult your parentage, etcetera?

Anybody here remember a Church Parade?

Remember when you weren't ALLOWED to read the CFAOs or QR&Os?

Just a couple of things that came immediately to mind.  The culture IS changing, HAS been changing, and will CONTINUE to change.  For the most part, it won't be noticeable to anyone still serving, as they'll be changing along with it.

All true stuff.  There was a huge change in 1985 as to what instructors could and could not do.  Although it hampered being able to weed out those who were 'weak of heart', it certainly got a grip on the odd instructor who had taken upon themselves a bit too much authority (and enjoyment).  But there were plenty of ways for an imaginative instructor to stay within the guidelines and still terrorize instill some discipline in their charges.

I have no disagreement with the fact that the forces have changed and will changed.  However, I was wondering if you had any ideas of how the forces would change in the future?

 

[DSB]

We have church parade every year.

 

[Panzer Grenadier]

We have church parade every year still.

My unit calls it "Carol Service".

 

[TCBF]

It was really like that, as late as 1984 when I took my CLC (Combat Leader's Course - what the PLQ used to be, sorta) - the last course through the Battle School before the Human Rights Act took effect - the instructors knew what was coming and made hay while the sun still shined.  The striking bit wasn't common - but it wasn't rare either.

- Brings back a lot of memories - not all of them good.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

Yes I can remember a few "fista cuffs" behind the wood shed between a Snr NCO and a Jnr NCO. No names no pack drill. May the best man walk away. This happened rarely, but it did happen on occasion.

Then the Snr Nco's found out that extra duties were more effective. My favorite was stoppage of leave, until the WO on duty measures your color dogs with a ruler and finds out there not straight. Add a few more show parades on for that weekend. 

Nothing like sitting in the BOS's office on friday nights for next 3 months working of 10 extras answering the phone. Or driving the drunk bus and cleaning up a pile of vomit from the back of the van, after picking up a bunch of drunks from one of the messes.

All this because I was 10 minutes late for morning roll call, or it may have been my excuse. "My alarm didn't go of sir". You never, ever say that to a CSM.  It's all I could think of at the time.

Oh how I miss those days  :'(

 

[Lumber]

And CADPAT for NAVY personnel, that will attract gung ho kids who are afraid to join the army, but want to look cool! 

Not to mention, the pleated NCD pants ride up your ass. Maybe mine just arn't tailored right...but still, I wear army CADPAT twice a week here at the collge and would love to get to wear something as comfortable and "cool" looking when I actually start serving full time in the navy.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Not to mention, the pleated NCD pants ride up your ***. Maybe mine just arn't tailored right...but still, I wear army CADPAT twice a week here at the collge and would love to get to wear something as comfortable and "cool" looking when I actually start serving full time in the navy.

When you're actually serving in the Navy aboard a ship you'll probably change your mind. Clothing on board ship is meant to be about safety and comfort over a long period of time probaby sitting in one place....not whether it's "cool" or not.

 

[rtangri]

It would be great if the recruiting centres could also approve officer on their own (obviously they still need to do all the med, security clearance, etc.), and work within their quotas. It sucks having to wait for a selection board. They should also try and open some more training areas across Canada. Also, high school recruiting booths. Oh I think that should do it. Wouldnt hurt to have a mandatory response time aswell, as in, you are guaranteed an answer within 5 or 6 weeks of all applications handed in.

 

[George Wallace]

It would be great if the recruiting centres could also approve officer on their own (obviously they still need to do all the med, security clearance, etc.), and work within their quotas. It sucks having to wait for a selection board. They should also try and open some more training areas across Canada. Also, high school recruiting booths. Oh I think that should do it. Wouldnt hurt to have a mandatory response time aswell, as in, you are guaranteed an answer within 5 or 6 weeks of all applications handed in.

There is so much wrong with this post I wouldn't know where to start.

 

[dimsum]

When you're actually serving in the Navy aboard a ship you'll probably change your mind. Clothing on board ship is meant to be about safety and comfort over a long period of time probaby sitting in one place....not whether it's "cool" or not.

Just had to add....being a MARS officer trainee, don't expect to be sitting much (at least on the bridge.)  Invest in some comfy insoles for your seaboots.

 

[rtangri]

Care to elaborate Wallace?

 

[aesop081]

There is so much wrong with this post I wouldn't know where to start.

Care to elaborate Wallace?

Oh. i'll take a stab....

It sucks having to wait for a selection board.

:crybaby:  There are selection boards for everything. When i remustered i had to wait a year for the selection board to sit. Deal with it. Its not a situation unique to the military either........

They should also try and open some more training areas across Canada.

And exactly where are we going to get the money for this ? Where would the staff come from ?

Also, high school recruiting booths. Oh I think that should do it.

Have you not seen in the news what happens every time we try to go to a college or university ?

Wouldnt hurt to have a mandatory response time aswell, as in, you are guaranteed an answer within 5 or 6 weeks of all applications handed in.

Since every applicant comes with a unique set of baggage, we could make " Nothing yet we are still waiting for _____________ to come back from Ottawa" an apropriate maditory response. Expecting a firm "yes" or "no" after an arbitrary amount of time is ROTL.