Forces will face an exodus of experienced personnel ..

[dapaterson]

In fact, if you look at graphs illustrating "releases by years of service" expressed as a proportion of people in year period, you'll see that release rates are pretty much unchanged from historical norms - that is, the same proportion are getting out at 20, 25 or 27 years as always - it's just that as a proportion of the force more folks are hitting those gates at the same time.

Of course, at the start of FRP and structure cuts one of the first groups to get the axe were the long-term HR planners, whose job was to see these things coming and prepare mitigation strategies...

 

[armyvern]

Craploads of releases in my trade. Overwhelmingly for those of us who, like me, joined in the mid-late 80s and are now pensionable. They aren't getting out because of Afghanistan (unlike how the MSM seems to be playing it) -- they're just pensionable and frustrated.

Lot's of incentive for newbies to join; little incentive for those of us who are pensionable to stay. Oddly enough, most of those who I know in my trade who are getting out ... are doing so precisely because they CAN'T get on a tour over to Afghanistan. The longer you're in, the higher in rank you get (well -- you should anyway) and the less spots there are on deployments.

They want to deploy, but can't; why stay feeling like you're not contributing to much anymore, especially when you've also spent a couple decades training and waiting to do your job, but based upon rank can't get one of the damn precious few spots to finally be able to do the job you trained for for twenty years?

The CF wants to solve the retention issue? It's got to offer some kind of incentive to those kind of pers. Why stay in when I can get out, collect my pension, and get paid 3 times as much for doing the same darn job in Alberta?

OR,

The Canadian economy needs a recession -- who the hell gets out during a recession?? Retention problem solved.

 

[dapaterson]

Vern:

Interesting post.  I'd say that part of the problem is the rhetoric of the CLS these days "If you haven't gone to Afghanistan, you're going."  There aren't enough billets at all ranks for everyone to go.  And many folks back in Canada (even one or two of us in Ottawa!) do important work to support the efforts of those deployed.

"Incentive to stay" is a loaded term - from your subsequent comments, it appears to be more a feeling of not contributing.

Maybe we need a more nuanced message - letting those in "the Army Foundation" (the latest buzzword) know that they are important and making a difference; that they are enabling those who deploy.  Maybe we need to rethink some of our establishments - move a few Cpl Sup Techs from the bases into the Cbt Arms units, and replace them with the Cbt Storesmen from the bns to give everyone an idea of how the other half lives.

Maybe we need to focus on building "The Army Team", instead of "Afghanistan" and "Not" teams.

Money won't buy happiness.  A command environment that values and recognizes the efforts and contributions of everyone - not only the pointy end guys in theatre - will do a lot to help.

 

[armyvern]

Maybe we need a more nuanced message - letting those in "the Army Foundation" (the latest buzzword) know that they are important and making a difference; that they are enabling those who deploy.  Maybe we need to rethink some of our establishments - move a few Cpl Sup Techs from the bases into the Cbt Arms units, and replace them with the Cbt Storesmen from the bns to give everyone an idea of how the other half lives.

Yeah, we heard it today on parade. We're important. Training system would collapse without our support ...

Meanwhile --- just in my trade, 8 of just one rank being posted out with "no replacement" because someone in your location keeps telling us that "pri 6 is the lowest of our priorities for manning". Which means that even WHEN we finally get a possible spot for one of us higher ups on a TF -- they say "NO, we can't afford to lose you -- we're too short staffed". And, then they wonder why we toss the release paperwork on the table.

What one hand giveth -- the other taketh just as quickly. Same old/same old.

 

[lou-reed]

I am one of those who just released after 20 years of service.  In the mid to late 80s, Cornwallis was pumping out over 100 recruits per week.  When the budget dried up in the early to mid 90s the number of recruits dropped considerably.  There will be an increase in attrition for about the next 6-7 years until the lack of recruiting in the early 90s catchs up with the increase that occured in the later 90s and beyond.

Why did I release?  It was not because of Afghanistan.  When I reached 18 years I had reached my peak.  It was my decision that I did not want to do the required "checks in the box" in order to be promoted.  I liked what I was doing but it was my own personal decision.  With that comes the fact that I did not want to remain a member of the CF just to receive a paycheck (too many do that already).  I did stick around for the 20 years for the pension but I did spend my 20th year in Kandahar as I was still under contract and still did what was required of me.

In my opinion, things in the CF are not getting any easier, and there are more courses, training, and professional development being asked of CF members in order to be promoted.  Perhaps the adults should look at these issues when they ask themselves why people are releasing.

Loved my 20 years in, but it was time to move on and have no regrets about doing so.  

 

[dapaterson]

Yeah, we heard it today on parade. We're important. Training system would collapse without our support ...

Meanwhile --- just in my trade, 8 of just one rank being posted out with "no replacement" because someone in your location keeps telling us that "pri 6 is the lowest of our priorities for manning". Which means that even WHEN we finally get a possible spot for one of us higher ups on a TF -- they say "NO, we can't afford to lose you -- we're too short staffed". And, then they wonder why we toss the release paperwork on the table.

What one hand giveth -- the other taketh just as quickly. Same old/same old.

Vern:

It can't just be words.  There have to be actions to support it.  Hmm, what's that term I'm thinking of... where people have a vision, they communicate it, and get everyone else to adopt it and embrace it to move forward...

I'm sure it will come to me, but it's been a hell of a long time since I've seen it...

Oh yeah!

Leadership!

 

[a78jumper]

Lou-Reed your comments sum up my experience in a nutshell, though the offer of a third and final FRP in 1996 certainly hastened my decision. The mid 90s  were very frustrating years .The system really took a dim view of those that did not want a promotion, refused career courses etc, and it was time. I served in Camp Julien as a civy contractor on Roto 0  for a year so and also as a reservist fo three years so my military experience did not end totally at the 20 year point. Too much time in NDHQ sitting on my arse doing absolutely nothing at all also was a major influence.

 

[armyvern]

Good points Lou ...

I still LOVE my job, the courses/PD etc don't bother me a single little bit ... and that's where my dilemma lies because I am on the verge of tossing mine on the table. For me, it's not about the bucks either -- or I'd already be out west, but it takes a lot out of someone to sit back and see a bunch of pri 6ers who work their asses off day after day to keep that trg sp going --- get zero rewards for doing so other than a commendation here, a commendation there, and a "good job -BZ" every O Gp ... while they watch their staffing levels decrease weekly and their workloads increase with no expectation of change on the horizon.

I call it frustration ... and when it's becoming a daily issue even for people like me who love our jobs and don't want to get out --- we have a problem Houston.

 

[a78jumper]

Vern if you want a job out here in the Oil Sands PM me your email address- my boss is an ex trucker, and I also work with an ex 911 CWO and another retired trucker  LCol.

 

[armyvern]

Oh yeah!

Leadership!

Nice word. Come live in a pri 6 world and see where that gets you. Leadership is in every one of us. Lot's of awesome and excellent leaders about this place throughout all levels of the CoC. Still --- we're all pri 6 ... and in careers' eyes -- that's where we remain. Sad, but true. Until that gets fixed --- we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

And, it wasn't just "words" -- a section received the LFAA Comd Commendation for their outstanding work & sp for TF1-07, and an individual received one for her outstanding efforts. The actions are there too.

What they need to do is correct this pri6 situation where every unit that we support are all pri2 and fully manned, and supporting an EXTRA 1200 pers this summer for trg ... while we remain pri 6 for manning (meaning they can rob our pers for anything and if we "no fill" get told -- you're pri 6 "fill it") watch our pers posted out with no replacement (and it's not like we didn't have posns unfilled before this APS either) simply because we happen to be pri 6. Something --- is dreadfully wrong with that.

It certainly didn't help that the Army grew the zero trades, but not the trades required to provide the support to them. It all kinds of comes together to create a situation where, despite ones love of the job, you certainly don't feel your contributions matter ... or that you are indeed deemed to be "important" in others' eyes, especially when they keep re-iterating "you're only pri 6".

 

[dapaterson]

Vern:  I spend considerable time monitoring pri 5 units -the reserve units.  I'll use the infantry as an example:  65% of the Reg F officer positions in the Res infantry units are vacant.  Think about that.  With a significant percentage of those deployed overseas coming from the Reserves (I won't give numbers over these means), that many vacancies impairs the ability to force generate.  Same problems at pri 6 units - we don't have good process models to explain how things work, or what the impact of not filling those units has.

Unfortunately, support, whether the ASUs/ASGs or RSS/RFC at Res units is not sexy, and does not draw attention - unless things collapse.  Then we blame the incumbent who inherited the mess and had the collapse on their watch. 

 

[armyvern]

Unfortunately, support, whether the ASUs/ASGs or RSS/RFC at Res units is not sexy, and does not draw attention - unless things collapse.   Then we blame the incumbent who inherited the mess and had the collapse on their watch. 

Bingo. What's wrong with this picture?

So, there's my frustration. Same old/same old to the troops. It's not like the incumbent hasn't tried to address the issue. And if that's not fixing things or at least making them a little bit better --- then why would I (and the others like me) even begin to think (or my troops for that matter who don't get to see what happens behind the scenes) that what I did/said was important?

Why stay ... when even the important people, despite their trying desperately, can't seem to get anyone to listen. (LFC is listening ... it seems that careers is not though, and, unfortunately, those are the people that need to).

 

[rifleman]

When you say LFC is listening, what are they doing??

Unfortunately, the military deals mostly with breakdown maintenance not preventative