Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Navy_Pete]

For the record…or more correctly, to note the record, the Windsor blockade was resolved through established means via an Ontario Supreme Court injunction (11 Feb) and Windsor Police Services and supporting services clearing the blockade within 48 hours (13 Feb)…all BEFORE the Federal government enacted the EA.

So we know that the EA was not necessary. It only served to provide some Maskirovka for the disfunctional political-police interaction in the National Capital Region.

Heck, 21-year old Zexi Ali and her injunction to stop horns blaring was more effective than the Fed-Prov-City bickering that went on.

Thanks, my mistake.

It really seemed to be the game changer in the NCR though; was pretty pathetic that it took a 21 year old to get a court injunction and the EA to get the OPS to do anything, but the leadership there was just about as competent as city hall. Not sure who was actually in charge of the clear out, but once the RCMP, OPP and others came onboard (maybe Gatineau and some Toronto police?) was finally an effective response.

The police in Windsor did a really great job though, was nice to see but made the OPS look especially amateurish.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Has the PM moved to a safe house yet?

 

[brihard]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-tomb-unknown-soldier-police-1.6434275

That’s fine. What she did was crass and ugly and stupid, but I’m not sure what criminal charge it’s imagined would likely stick. Mischief is defined under S.430 of the Criminal Code;

• 430 (1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully
  • (a) destroys or damages property;
  • (b) renders property dangerous, useless, inoperative or ineffective;
  • (c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or
  • (d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.

Subsection (4.11) is mischief relating specifically to war memorials. I would see it being difficult to claim that she actually did any of those listed things to an extent that would be criminal.

Now, as a vet, seeing that? Fucking infuriating. But she made an utter ass of herself on the national stage, did no actual damage, and can’t be claimed to have inhibited anyone’s ‘operation’ or ‘use’ of the memorial. I don’t see the public interest in pushing that one through court if, in fact, she has shown remorse and other lesser measures have been used.

Well look out in Ottawa on Friday when the Motorcycle protest rally wheels in.

They will be coming into an Ottawa whose police are very prepared to clear them out right ricky tick the second it’s necessary to. They can have their little parade as long as they carry on through. Like anyone, they can make their way to downtown and go have a tantrum on the Hill. What there won’t be is anything approaching a repeat of February.

 

[Kat Stevens]

That’s fine. What she did was crass and ugly and stupid, but I’m not sure what criminal charge it’s imagined would likely stick. Mischief is defined under S.430 of the Criminal Code;

• 430(1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully
  • (a) destroys or damages property;
  • (b) renders property dangerous, useless, inoperative or ineffective;
  • (c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or
  • (d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.

Subsection (4.11) is mischief relating specifically to war memorials. I would see it being difficult to claim that she actually did any of those listed things to an extent that would be criminal.

Now, as a vet, seeing that? Fucking infuriating. But she made an utter ass of herself on the national stage, did no actual damage, and can’t be claimed to have inhibited anyone’s ‘operation’ or ‘use’ of the memorial. I don’t see the public interest in pushing that one through court if, in fact, she has shown remorse and other lesser measures have been used.



They will be coming into an Ottawa whose police are very prepared to clear them out right ricky tick the second it’s necessary to. They can have their little parade as long as they carry on through. Like anyone, they can make their way to downtown and go have a tantrum on the Hill. What there won’t be is anything approaching a repeat of February.

Plus, her little crew were toting a Quebec flag around, so that makes it even okayer.

 

[brihard]

Plus, her little crew were toting a Quebec flag around, so that makes it even okayer.

That would have had no bearing on the decision Ottawa Police and/or Ontario provincial crown made regarding charges or alternative measures… Quebec residents got charged like anyone else.

 

[lenaitch]

That’s fine. What she did was crass and ugly and stupid, but I’m not sure what criminal charge it’s imagined would likely stick. Mischief is defined under S.430 of the Criminal Code;

• 430(1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully
  • (a) destroys or damages property;
  • (b) renders property dangerous, useless, inoperative or ineffective;
  • (c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or
  • (d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.

Subsection (4.11) is mischief relating specifically to war memorials. I would see it being difficult to claim that she actually did any of those listed things to an extent that would be criminal.

Now, as a vet, seeing that? Fucking infuriating. But she made an utter ass of herself on the national stage, did no actual damage, and can’t be claimed to have inhibited anyone’s ‘operation’ or ‘use’ of the memorial. I don’t see the public interest in pushing that one through court if, in fact, she has shown remorse and other lesser measures have been used.



They will be coming into an Ottawa whose police are very prepared to clear them out right ricky tick the second it’s necessary to. They can have their little parade as long as they carry on through. Like anyone, they can make their way to downtown and go have a tantrum on the Hill. What there won’t be is anything approaching a repeat of February.

I don't know if you are signed up to be part of this latest go-round, but the media keeps reporting that Ottawa PS or PSB has 'appointed' or 'approved' (the words seem to vary), X number of RCMP members to assist OPS. One article used the term 'special constable'. Seeing as police authority isn't an issue, I'm at a loss to understand what they are talking about. Is it related to enforcing provincial offences/city bylaws, some kind of agreement that they will be subject to the SUI or is it just a salary dollars + expenses funding thing?

 

[lenaitch]

No, there are already existing laws for preventing blockades on major traffic arteries; they should simply be applied evenly.

Picketers protesting their own employer as part of a labour strike is a targeted action, protestors randomly blocking the borders because reasons is just stupid, and demonstrates a bit of a lack of understanding on basic Canadian civics anyway.

Everyone's individual rights needs to be balanced against the rights of others, and a right to peaceful protest isn't an unlimited one.

This whole protest was really a lost opportunity; they had enough numbers and dedication to be effective, but instead they behaved like tantruming children, targeted the wrong levels of government, and managed to actively lose the large amount of public sympathy they had at the start by just being bellends. The spouting of random conspiracy theories, calls to overthrow the democratically elected government just because they don't like Trudeau, and association with white supremacists and other nutjobs turned the whole thing into a joke.

I do think the EA had some merit, although it should not have been necessary if OPS had their act together. Individual violations of criminal, provincial or municipal law have to be prosecuted as individual acts, meaning that, if an offence says 'wilfully' or 'without lawful excuse', that fact in issue has to be addressed in every case. If the EA order says 'you can't be on Wellington', the validity of the order should only have to be established once. Of course, if it fails once, I suppose it fails spectacularly.

Then there was the 'reluctant tow truck' issue. The police can't normally force a private business to, well, do business. There might be some obscure old statute out there that says otherwise but I'll bet it hasn't been tested since the Charter.

It is true that Windsor was cleared prior to the EA, but there was also an injunction regarding the private property of the bridge and approach plazas.

 

[brihard]

I don't know if you are signed up to be part of this latest go-round, but the media keeps reporting that Ottawa PS or PSB has 'appointed' or 'approved' (the words seem to vary), X number of RCMP members to assist OPS. One article used the term 'special constable'. Seeing as police authority isn't an issue, I'm at a loss to understand what they are talking about. Is it related to enforcing provincial offences/city bylaws, some kind of agreement that they will be subject to the SUI or is it just a salary dollars + expenses funding thing?

It has to do with appointing RCMP members as Special Constables for the City of Ottawa. RCMP aren’t a “police service” under Ontario’s Police Services Act. They still have full authority to enforce federal laws, of course, but they have zero authority for provincial laws like traffic, mental health, trespass etc. The Special Constable appointment extends that to them, granting powers for things like non-criminal traffic stops, controlling or directing traffic, removing vehicles from a road, etc. It’s one of those weird peculiarities of police jurisdictions and provincial law.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wonder how inclined bikers will be to rev their engines with the price of gas in Ottawa.

 

[Good2Golf]

Then there was the 'reluctant tow truck' issue. The police can't normally force a private business to, well, do business. There might be some obscure old statute out there that says otherwise but I'll bet it hasn't been tested since the Charter.

While there were a few commercial operators in the clear out, the majority of the vehicles were OC Transpo’s own wreckers, so I don’t buy the argument by some that commercial wreckers were a hard stop for the clear out, it was more the lack of will to enforce using tools at hand.

It is true that Windsor was cleared prior to the EA, but there was also an injunction regarding the private property of the bridge and approach plazas.

So is your case that injunctions only work for private property? The Li/OSC injunction against horn blowing worked and wasn’t limited to only trucks on private property.

 

[Haggis]

Then there was the 'reluctant tow truck' issue. The police can't normally force a private business to, well, do business.

That was a red-herring. There are exponentially more semi-trucks than heavy wreckers in Ontario. The truckers need the wreckers more than vice versa, particularly with the increasing number of big truck accidents. I travel the ON 401 and QC 20 and/or 40 every day and barely a day goes by when I don't see something being recovered or towed by a heavy wrecker.

 

[Bluebulldog]

Thanks, my mistake.

It really seemed to be the game changer in the NCR though; was pretty pathetic that it took a 21 year old to get a court injunction and the EA to get the OPS to do anything, but the leadership there was just about as competent as city hall. Not sure who was actually in charge of the clear out, but once the RCMP, OPP and others came onboard (maybe Gatineau and some Toronto police?) was finally an effective response.

The police in Windsor did a really great job though, was nice to see but made the OPS look especially amateurish.

The main trouble...or difference was that Windsor was a very clear delineation point between where Federal Authority ends and Municipal / Provincial began.

A border crossing, and impeding the traffic flow to those crossing, is a very definitive Federal issue.

A Federal site ( Parliament Hill) surrounded by infrastructure ( municipal), and a question over authority, or even applicable law was one of the main hold ups. I recall the first few days it was almost an exercise in finger pointing from the Mayor, and the Minister of Public Safety...( of course, looked like a pair of clowns). Meanwhile Rome burned to the sound of fiddle music....

 

[Remius]

The main trouble...or difference was that Windsor was a very clear delineation point between where Federal Authority ends and Municipal / Provincial began.

A border crossing, and impeding the traffic flow to those crossing, is a very definitive Federal issue.

A Federal site ( Parliament Hill) surrounded by infrastructure ( municipal), and a question over authority, or even applicable law was one of the main hold ups. I recall the first few days it was almost an exercise in finger pointing from the Mayor, and the Minister of Public Safety...( of course, looked like a pair of clowns). Meanwhile Rome burned to the sound of fiddle music....

Ottawa City Hall needs a complete purge when the election rolls around. Not a single one there showed any real leadership.

 

[Bluebulldog]

Ottawa City Hall needs a complete purge when the election rolls around. Not a single one there showed any real leadership.

Concur.

Mitic should throw his hat back in the ring....

 

[mariomike]

Like anyone, they can make their way to downtown and go have a tantrum on the Hill.

Looks like MPP Randy will be sitting this one out,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/randy-hillier-freedom-convoy-rolling-thunder-bail-review-downtown-ottawa-1.6434323

 

[torg003]

Maybe it's time to consider making the Ottawa-Gatineau region into a National Capital Territory (or Federal Capital Territory) with the RCMP responsible for the policing. Yes, would take a referendum for the change, so not likely to happen, but wouldn't hurt Canadians to have that conversation.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Ottawa City Hall needs a complete purge when the election rolls around. Not a single one there showed any real leadership.

Aside from this, the majority of them were useless on the LRT. There are a few good councillors that consistently question the mayor, but with his little clique they push BS through.

The clowns approved the LRT and disregarded questions about whether the proposed winner had actually met the technical requirements (shocker: they didn't). Only a once a generation, multibillion dollar infrastructure contract, no big deal. Lot of negligence to go around, but can't wait for the mayor and cronies to get tossed on their collectively useless assess (and greasy sex pest Chiarelli to get punted, because he's too shameless to resign after getting banned for 450 days).

Really frustrating, they have access to way more potential resources than a lot of other cities just by being the capitol city, but they squander it by being criminally feckless.

 

[OldSolduer]

Aside from this, the majority of them were useless on the LRT. There are a few good councillors that consistently question the mayor, but with his little clique they push BS through.

The clowns approved the LRT and disregarded questions about whether the proposed winner had actually met the technical requirements (shocker: they didn't). Only a once a generation, multibillion dollar infrastructure contract, no big deal. Lot of negligence to go around, but can't wait for the mayor and cronies to get tossed on their collectively useless assess (and greasy sex pest Chiarelli to get punted, because he's too shameless to resign after getting banned for 450 days).

Really frustrating, they have access to way more potential resources than a lot of other cities just by being the capitol city, but they squander it by being criminally feckless.

Ummmm I sense you want to vent?

 

[brihard]

A Federal site ( Parliament Hill) surrounded by infrastructure ( municipal), and a question over authority, or even applicable law was one of the main hold ups.

No. Ottawa Police are the police of jurisdiction and have already got responsibility for public order functions including on Parliament Hill. RCMP used to do it for PH as needed, but that’s been handed off. RCMP will support if requested, but it’s OPS lead.

 

[Jarnhamar]

SeNd In ThE aRmY!