Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[childs56]

it has to do with him pointing out the political situation that led to her being removed from that committee and the reasons why.

You seem to be distorting what actually happened.

I disagree with this.
She was removed from the Police Committee due to her incessant interference with trying to influence the Police Chief in escalating the situation with the convoy. She was using terms and trying use pressure that were not appropriate to get the use of force escalated.
She even stated herself a few times that she was possibly over reaching her and the committees role but felt it was appropriate. All the other infighting with the council is just that a bunch of typical politicians who misdirect the real reasons and blame everyone else but themselves.

 

[Remius]

I disagree with this.
She was removed from the Police Committee due to her incessant interference with trying to influence the Police Chief in escalating the situation with the convoy. She was using terms and trying use pressure that were not appropriate to get the use of force escalated.
She even stated herself a few times that she was possibly over reaching her and the committees role but felt it was appropriate. All the other infighting with the council is just that a bunch of typical politicians who misdirect the real reasons and blame everyone else but themselves.

You can disagree. You haven’t shown that was the case.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/police-chief-diane-deans-1.6354150

Very few people at OPS lamented the loss of Sloly.

The straw that broke the camel’s back. Watson just needed an excuse. Not sure if you follow Ottawa city politics but Watson and Deans were not very good friends at all.

Also

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/police-chief-diane-deans-1.6354150

Egan: Jim Watson and the practice of politics most cruel

"That Wednesday council meeting was not just divisive, it was, on a human level, destructive."

ottawacitizen.com

Meehan: Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson’s world is the very worst of politics

Someone had to take the political fall for what was happening with the protest downtown. Targeting the Ottawa Police Services Board, chaired by Watson's…

ottawacitizen.com

Not sure where you are getting your info.

After she and Sloly were removed they appointed an acting chief that finally took action and cleared everyone out.

 

[brihard]

The convoy was just a big tantrum. It stopped having anything meaningful to do with working truckers by the time it even entered Ontario; it was just a big collection of incoherent grievances. Sloly didn’t have the will to immediately act to clear it out; once he was turfed, his successor did. When it finally came time to clear them out and open up downtown again, they went with all the grace and dignity of a toddler sweeping things off the shelf as his mom carries him screaming out of the grocery store. The convoy achieved nothing save to spur some long overdue regulation of crowd funding platforms, and to land a bunch of people with minor criminal records that will screw with their plans to take the kids to Disneyland. None of the service or retail workers whose jobs downtown were shuttered for weeks because of these idiots were sad to see them go.

The sad and disturbing thing is that even right up to the very end, a bunch of them thought they would convince police to turn around, join them, and March to Parliament Hill and toss out the current government (notwithstanding that it was a weekend). That’s what a whole lot of them wanted. We know this because they said it loudly and repeatedly.

Sorry kids. You can wait til the next election and try it the lawful way.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The straw that broke the camel’s back. Watson just needed an excuse. Not sure if you follow Ottawa city politics but Watson and Deans were not very good friends at all.

I've been following our local city hall politics fairly regularly since the LRT started, and surprised Watson hadn't stabbed her in the back before that. He's an autocratic bully who gets things done (poorly). He routinely cuts out local councillors out of things in their wards if they aren't in his clique.

I wish the province had more oversight over the LRT contracting process, still can't believe the winner was that short of being technically compliant that the evaluators were questioning their basic competence in the evaluation (SNC's proposal missed that the old O-train line was diesel, and had nothing on the conversion required for the new electric trains, plus didn't meet basic environmental requirements). I expect the findings from the inquiry to be fairly damning.

I think it's sheer incompetance and arrogance vice corruption, but we're stuck with a train which is fundamentally unsuited for the environment, and stations not set up for rain, ice, snow or heat.

 

[Remius]

I've been following our local city hall politics fairly regularly since the LRT started, and surprised Watson hadn't stabbed her in the back before that. He's an autocratic bully who gets things done (poorly). He routinely cuts out local councillors out of things in their wards if they aren't in his clique.

I wish the province had more oversight over the LRT contracting process, still can't believe the winner was that short of being technically compliant that the evaluators were questioning their basic competence in the evaluation (SNC's proposal missed that the old O-train line was diesel, and had nothing on the conversion required for the new electric trains, plus didn't meet basic environmental requirements). I expect the findings from the inquiry to be fairly damning.

I think it's sheer incompetance and arrogance vice corruption, but we're stuck with a train which is fundamentally unsuited for the environment, and stations not set up for rain, ice, snow or heat.

I hear you. I’m glad most of the people at city hall aren’t running again. Fresh faces are definitely needed.

Don’t forget the secret WhatsApp messaging they used to talk about everything “LRT”. I agree with you though, I don’t think anything corrupt happened but it was very much arrogance.

 

[childs56]

You can disagree. You haven’t shown that was the case.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/police-chief-diane-deans-1.6354150

Very few people at OPS lamented the loss of Sloly.

The straw that broke the camel’s back. Watson just needed an excuse. Not sure if you follow Ottawa city politics but Watson and Deans were not very good friends at all.

Also

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/police-chief-diane-deans-1.6354150

Egan: Jim Watson and the practice of politics most cruel

"That Wednesday council meeting was not just divisive, it was, on a human level, destructive."

ottawacitizen.com

Meehan: Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson’s world is the very worst of politics

Someone had to take the political fall for what was happening with the protest downtown. Targeting the Ottawa Police Services Board, chaired by Watson's…

ottawacitizen.com

Not sure where you are getting your info.

After she and Sloly were removed they appointed an acting chief that finally took action and cleared everyone out.

I am going off the meeting I watched that is not public in its entirety now. The one where she acted improperly trying to force the Police Chief to ask for the Military to assist him to gain order from the terrorist that invaded her city.
A couple days later he resigned.
They hired a new Chief who stepped down a couple of days later.
No matter what other politics were going on, she messed up by trying to directly influence the Police Chief to escalate force on the protesters. After he had things under control. She was directly responsible for reneging on the meeting locations for the safe protests.
You can have your opinions on all the other influences as to her leaving the Police Committee. She was forced out because she acted inappropriately for her position and role. She acknowledged it in the meeting, but tried to cover her butt for it.

End of the day she did wrong, she over stepped her boundaries and tried to directly influence the Police Chief, during a major situation. Which is a over reach in the committees role and purpose.

 

[Navy_Pete]

@childs56 except that had absolutely nothing to do with her replacement, the official party line was she got axed 'to restore public confidence' because the people in Ottawa wanted to occupation gone, and most people were pretty happy that it got broken up shortly after the EMA got brought in.

It likely didn't need to be, but by that point the city had long ago lost the plot, and the council under Watson was doing nothing. It took a private citizen to get the noise injunction, which is something Watson could have done.

Watson had been gunning for Deans for a long time, and honestly it's a shame she is retiring as she was pretty good. Unfortunately some of the Watson crew are running again, so hoping for a house clearing.

 

[lenaitch]

I am going off the meeting I watched that is not public in its entirety now. The one where she acted improperly trying to force the Police Chief to ask for the Military to assist him to gain order from the terrorist that invaded her city.
A couple days later he resigned.
They hired a new Chief who stepped down a couple of days later.
No matter what other politics were going on, she messed up by trying to directly influence the Police Chief to escalate force on the protesters. After he had things under control. She was directly responsible for reneging on the meeting locations for the safe protests.
You can have your opinions on all the other influences as to her leaving the Police Committee. She was forced out because she acted inappropriately for her position and role. She acknowledged it in the meeting, but tried to cover her butt for it.

End of the day she did wrong, she over stepped her boundaries and tried to directly influence the Police Chief, during a major situation. Which is a over reach in the committees role and purpose.

You keep flipping between "her" (Deanes) and "they" (Police Services Board). I haven't researched it that closely, but I'm not sure if the Board, by resolution, hired the ex-Chief of WRPS or she acted alone, either rogue or assuming she hand the authority of the Board. Same for the alleged influence on the OPS Chief.

Whether the alleged action of the Board, or any of its individual members, was an unlawful interference in day-to-day operations under the PSA is, to some, a matter of debate.

Please explain to us how Chief Sloly had "everything under control".

In several posts, you equate law enforcement action as "violence". Is it your view that the Ottawa 'convoy' protest was completely lawful and peaceful, and that any police action was violence against the innocent. I'm just trying to take your measure.

 

[childs56]

You keep flipping between "her" (Deanes) and "they" (Police Services Board). I haven't researched it that closely, but I'm not sure if the Board, by resolution, hired the ex-Chief of WRPS or she acted alone, either rogue or assuming she hand the authority of the Board. Same for the alleged influence on the OPS Chief.

So why are you commenting if you have not researched it that closely.

Whether the alleged action of the Board, or any of its individual members, was an unlawful interference in day-to-day operations under the PSA is, to some, a matter of debate.

The debate was made and she apologized for her words.

Please explain to us how Chief Sloly had "everything under control".

Its been in many reports since that the protest was under control and that they had agreements in place that were followed only to have them changed. But again people only want to focus on their opinions.

In several posts, you equate law enforcement action as "violence". Is it your view that the Ottawa 'convoy' protest was completely lawful and peaceful, and that any police action was violence against the innocent. I'm just trying to take your measure.

She was trying to have the Ottawa Police to call in the Army to forcibly remove the Protesters. Which the Army and the Ottawa police wanted nothing to do with. She wanted to use force against the protesters because she did not agree with their protest.

Shortly before during previous protests of other groups it was determined that the Police were to heavy handed and escalated force that escalated the situation beyond a normal response. ( you can read Ottawa commission of handing of the BLM protests along with the other ones the previous summer). In their review they decided to not use physical force to break up peaceful protest for fear of escalating the situation beyond reasonable force. Ie do not deploy tear gas and batons unless the protesters are violent.

I assume you feel that the trucks were weaponized and the truckers were armed with guns to get their point across. You feel the Army should have deployed and quelled the violence.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Never assume.

 

[brihard]

So why are you commenting if you have not researched it that closely.

The debate was made and she apologized for her words.

Its been in many reports since that the protest was under control and that they had agreements in place that were followed only to have them changed. But again people only want to focus on their opinions.

She was trying to have the Ottawa Police to call in the Army to forcibly remove the Protesters. Which the Army and the Ottawa police wanted nothing to do with. She wanted to use force against the protesters because she did not agree with their protest.

Shortly before during previous protests of other groups it was determined that the Police were to heavy handed and escalated force that escalated the situation beyond a normal response. ( you can read Ottawa commission of handing of the BLM protests along with the other ones the previous summer). In their review they decided to not use physical force to break up peaceful protest for fear of escalating the situation beyond reasonable force. Ie do not deploy tear gas and batons unless the protesters are violent.

I assume you feel that the trucks were weaponized and the truckers were armed with guns to get their point across. You feel the Army should have deployed and quelled the violence.

What are you on about? Nothing happened at the big BLM protest in Ottawa for police to get particularly worked up about. A few thousand people marched down to the US embassy, yelled for a while, a couple bottles were thrown at cops but that was it, and then they went up to Parliament and the PM literally went into the middle of the crowd. I can only guess you’re talking about the handful who, on a totally separate occasion, occupied the intersection at Nicholas and Laurier and were forcibly cleared out. It pissed some people off but was completely lawful and justified to remove them from the intersection,

The convoy protesters were removed from downtown Ottawa because for weeks they had blocked up part of the downtown core, forced to closure of many businesses and shuttered many people’s livelihoods, and had been warned for days that their occupation had long since crossed the line into being criminal.

It’s not rocket surgery. You don’t get to blockade a downtown core and harass thousands of residents for weeks and expect to get away with it endlessly. They were tolerated far longer than they ought to have been. You want to hold marches, clog up streets for an hour or two, be loud and annoying and wave signs, have at ‘er. But weeks is ridiculous. Fortunately the protesters ultimately chose to mostly leave, and to put up modest enough resistance that the use of force by police was kept quite minimal. Had they made different choices there would have been different paths to the same end result.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Ottawa city council was actually calling for the military be brought in specifically after they got rid of Deans, and Watson called a state of emergency 6 Feb. These are the same people that voted for her ouster, so unless you have some kind of statement from the Mayor or similar condemning that you are reaching. The same council was supportive of the Emergency Act was enacted, because OPS definitely did not have control on the ground. Around the same time some protestors were doing things like setting fires in apartment building lobbies, harrassing residents with LGBT flags and doing some other pretty shitty things.

Truck convoy: Trudeau invokes Emergencies Act; Judge approves city's injunction; 'Several' trucks moved off residential streets: Watson

 

[lenaitch]

I assume you feel that the trucks were weaponized and the truckers were armed with guns to get their point across. You feel the Army should have deployed and quelled the violence.

You assume incorrectly.

I'm just going off memory and what was in the media. If she or the Board wanted the military brought in, sure, I'll take your word for it.

Law enforcement showed itself to be quite capable in dispersing the blockade; all they needed was leadership and an operational plan from the police service of jurisdiction that garnered the confidence of partner agencies sufficiently that they were willing to commit their members.

I was unaware of any agreements between OPS and the protest organizers. I am aware that the OPS senior command cycled through several incidents commanders in the early stages.

 

[QV]

#rocketsurgery

 

[brihard]

Around the same time some protestors were doing things like setting fires in apartment building lobbies, harrassing residents with LGBT flags and doing some other pretty shitty things.

One small point to correct, the fire that was set in the lobby of an apartment building had nothing to do with the protest. Rampant harassment of residents was definitely happening though.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Throughout the whole 247 pages of this thread, nobody has acknowledge the anger and sense of futility that fueled this goat rodeo in the first place. Lots of "right bad, left good" and left bad, right good" , but nobody gives a flying fuck about the underlying frustration. Keep sniping at each other, it's a great distraction.

 

[McG]

I think it has been touched upon.

When a democratic system fails to represent their constituents, it loses legitimacy in the eyes of those disenfranchised. They fact they fail to understand

Had they recognized the source of their grievance (disenfranchisement) as opposed to a symptom (masks), they might have been able to draw out more support from across the political spectrum. Then again, there were probably a lot of participants in the protests and occupation who would not have believed that what they really wanted was electoral reform, so they might not have showed to a protest that actually addressed the cause of their concern.

 

[childs56]

Throughout the whole 247 pages of this thread, nobody has acknowledge the anger and sense of futility that fueled this goat rodeo in the first place. Lots of "right bad, left good" and left bad, right good" , but nobody gives a flying fuck about the underlying frustration. Keep sniping at each other, it's a great distraction.

The issues are deeper then just the vaccine mandates. I discussed a few of them earlier with the Truckers in Vancouver. They had enough, many of them are part of the Sikh community who keep the economy going via trucking.

 

[Spencer100]

Throughout the whole 247 pages of this thread, nobody has acknowledge the anger and sense of futility that fueled this goat rodeo in the first place. Lots of "right bad, left good" and left bad, right good" , but nobody gives a flying fuck about the underlying frustration. Keep sniping at each other, it's a great distraction.

The experiment has been run. We all failed. That's is main take away of this and the last two years.

 

[childs56]

You assume incorrectly.

I'm just going off memory and what was in the media. If she or the Board wanted the military brought in, sure, I'll take your word for it.

Law enforcement showed itself to be quite capable in dispersing the blockade; all they needed was leadership and an operational plan from the police service of jurisdiction that garnered the confidence of partner agencies sufficiently that they were willing to commit their members.

I was unaware of any agreements between OPS and the protest organizers. I am aware that the OPS senior command cycled through several incidents commanders in the early stages.

There in is the problem. The majority of people did not and still do not know about the agreement for the protesters. Nor do they know that when one agreement was reached council wanted it changed. The Police seemed to have a good time in the beginning. Many enjoying the peaceful protest often seeing being delivered coffee and food. When the influence of certain politicians and media spoke up things went from annoying to panic and then fear.
Rumors of firearms being carried by the Truckers, was false, rumor of the protest blocking the bridges proved to be false ( many residents acknowledge that the Police themselves were blocking the bridges and not allowing citizens through) rumors of a fire being started in a apartment lobby by the protesters again false ( started by some local thugs), rumors that a food bank/ soup kitchen was attacked along with the security guard there,. Funny how they have video of some much else but not of these incidents, has yet to be proven, but wow did these incidents get spread pretty quick.
I did watch videos where the local Police shut down local businesses who were open during the protests. I did read where the majority of the funding raised was from foreign influences, again proven false. I did read the reports where crime was significantly down in the downtown core area of the city during the protest. I also read where the protest was actually packing up the day before the EMA was enacted, even the Police at multiple levels stated numerous times that they did not need, require or ask for the EMA to be enacted. Against what the Feds stated. But dont let facts get in the way.
the Inquiry into the EMA has been very interesting. Pretty much they over reached their authority to enact the EMA, then kept over stretching it when they seized funds of citizens and kept it going. Even the RCMP have said they did not ask for the act to be done. As for the actual truth. Trudeau and his supporters got scared, because the blue collar part of society got mad from coast to coast. Raised more money in two weeks and then a second time in another two weeks then the liberals or ndp can for their entire campaign.

It scared them because these are not regular protesters, these are the working force of the economy, who for the most part pay the bills. Even Hutterites, Quebecers, East Coast, Central, Western Canada, Sikhs, Mennonites etc came together. We have not seen this on this scale in my life time.
No one in power publicly asked why or was willing to talk to them. Go figure, instead trudeau left the area and hid. Hoping they would just go away.