Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Kat Stevens]

You can have it both way. The EA wasn't enacted to deal with the small group of racists and extremists, it was to deal with the whole group. Anyone who was occupying downtown and blaring their horns all hours of the day was part of the problem, not just the few among them who were "racists and extremists".

The occupiers were seriously endangering the mental health of those living in and around the occupied area.

You can argue to death that the OPS and OPP had the capacity to deal with the problem, but capacity means nothing unless you actually use it. What else were the Feds suppose to do? Just let it keep going on? "Well, they the have the capacity to do something, so we can't step in, even though they aren't actually doing anything, our hands are tied!". I.e. while it may not have exceeded the capabilities of the OPS and OPP, it exceeded their capacity to actually take action.

But the exact same agencies were involved after The Act was invoked than were, or were not, responding before it. Other than Junior’s “just watch me “ moment, what changed? Pure theatre, nothing more.

 

[QV]

You can have it both way. The EA wasn't enacted to deal with the small group of racists and extremists, it was to deal with the whole group. Anyone who was occupying downtown and blaring their horns all hours of the day was part of the problem, not just the few among them who were "racists and extremists".

The occupiers were seriously endangering the mental health of those living in and around the occupied area.

You can argue to death that the OPS and OPP had the capacity to deal with the problem, but capacity means nothing unless you actually use it. What else were the Feds suppose to do? Just let it keep going on? "Well, they the have the capacity to do something, so we can't step in, even though they aren't actually doing anything, our hands are tied!". I.e. while it may not have exceeded the capabilities of the OPS and OPP, it exceeded their capacity to actually take action.

Lol, no.

 

[Good2Golf]

Lots of folks conveniently forget that the Feds indeed were right in there as a chunk of the convoy was smack dab in the middle of the Parliamentary Precint…you know, the Fed enclave that has its own armed protection service in the heart of downtown Ottawa (and convoy CofG).

#oopsforgptaboutthat

 

[brihard]

Lots of folks conveniently forget that the Feds indeed were right in there as a chunk of the convoy was smack dab in the middle of the Parliamentary Precint…you know, the Fed enclave that has its own armed protection service in the heart of downtown Ottawa (and convoy CofG).

#oopsforgptaboutthat

They aren’t police or peace officers, and have no authority over Wellington street. They’re a security force empowered under very unique authorities of the speakers of the House and Senate. Employing PPS in any role other than their established duties to safeguard Parliamentary premises would have been very wrong.

 

[Good2Golf]

They aren’t police or peace officers, and have no authority over Wellington street. They’re a security force empowered under very unique authorities of the speakers of the House and Senate. Employing PPS in any role other than their established duties to safeguard Parliamentary premises would have been very wrong.

Ack, should have been clearer that one step north off Wellington and they’re in the Precinct, and there were a few Precint building that were in extreme close proximity to the occupiers…I think you had one right on your left hand side as you worked forward on the final line.

 

[QV]

I wonder if the judge appointed to lead this commission is connected to the LPC or Trudeau in anyway? That would be a bad start, one should think. But I suppose this PM isn't going to appoint someone completely free of bias...

 

[Navy_Pete]

I wonder if the judge appointed to lead this commission is connected to the LPC or Trudeau in anyway? That would be a bad start, one should think. But I suppose this PM isn't going to appoint someone completely free of bias...

Jesus, put the tin foil down. Our judges aren't elected politicians, they get appointed by non-partisan boards. They generally do as well of a job as anyone can of avoiding political bias influencing their decisions. It's not like the US where judges are actively campaigning.

Also being liberal or conservative doesn't mean you support LPC or CPC, so hard to piece out someone's voting support based on their decisions.

I don't think politics will enter into their finding, if the government screwed up they'll get a bollocking, if it was within the rules it will say so. I don't think there will be any kind of clear cut decision either way though as a lot of it is objective, so best case is really some lessons learned, and maybe an opinion on if it was a reasonable decion, based on what was known at the time.

 

[QV]

No, I will not. I will question and muse about the legitimacy of anything I want to. And this government has demonstrated this is more necessary now.

Your wishy washy answer is exactly what Trudeau is hoping for. "Well, there are so many feelings and emotions so we feel it was ok at the time... ". Bullshit. The EA either met the threshold to enact, or it didn't. If it didn't, I want to see heads roll (metaphorically of course).

 

[QV]

FJAG: does politics come in to play in judge appointments?

 

[lenaitch]

Of course politics come into play, in the sense that superior court judges are appointed by the Governor-in-Council (GG+Cabinet) based on the recommendations of an advisory commission. Specifically:

The Judiciary - Canada's Court System

An overview of Canada's court system by the Department of Justice Canada

www.justice.gc.ca

Last I looked, Cabinet is composed of members of the party in power.

If a member of the military is sworn in under a particular government, does that make them a hack of the party in power?

Please, on all that is holy, save us from the partisan process of the US.

 

[McG]

there were available heavy vehicles that could have started hauling away some big rigs - likely doing serious damage in the process;

Ottawa police services updating their Christmas wish list.

 

[Winds]

Jesus, put the tin foil down. Our judges aren't elected politicians, they get appointed by non-partisan boards. They generally do as well of a job as anyone can of avoiding political bias influencing their decisions. It's not like the US where judges are actively campaigning.

Also being liberal or conservative doesn't mean you support LPC or CPC, so hard to piece out someone's voting support based on their decisions.

I don't think politics will enter into their finding, if the government screwed up they'll get a bollocking, if it was within the rules it will say so. I don't think there will be any kind of clear cut decision either way though as a lot of it is objective, so best case is really some lessons learned, and maybe an opinion on if it was a reasonable decion, based on what was known at the time.

Tin foil? I'm not going to argue that Justice Rouleau is incapable of carrying out his role in an unbiased manner, but there have been concerns about his appointment and connections to the Liberal party (LPC), as well as the government's attempt to narrow the inquiries scope away from the government's actions.

Paul Rouleau was appointed to the bench in 2022 by the Paul Martin government, having previously worked as a Liberal party staffer in the '80s under John Turner, including helping to pick the party's cabinet at the time. He has, in the past at least, been more involved in the LPC than merely holding party membership and giving small donations. This does not necessarily mean that he holds loyalty to the current government, but does bring up concerns about partisanship.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Jesus, put the tin foil down. Our judges aren't elected politicians, they get appointed by non-partisan boards. They generally do as well of a job as anyone can of avoiding political bias influencing their decisions. It's not like the US where judges are actively campaigning.

Also being liberal or conservative doesn't mean you support LPC or CPC, so hard to piece out someone's voting support based on their decisions.

I don't think politics will enter into their finding, if the government screwed up they'll get a bollocking, if it was within the rules it will say so. I don't think there will be any kind of clear cut decision either way though as a lot of it is objective, so best case is really some lessons learned, and maybe an opinion on if it was a reasonable decion, based on what was known at the time.

They get recommended by non-partisan boards, they get appointed by the government. A very important distinction. The government can choose to ignore those recommendations or choose whomever suits themself if it so chooses.

Politics does get involved in our appointment process. A substantial amount of judges appointed since Trudeau took power has been Liberal donors vs the amount of Conservative or NDP donors. It isn't an apolitical process. It doesn't mean that they are all biased, or that they weren't good choices, simply that it isn't the perfect system some think it is. They maybe decent judges, or lawyers, but they also could be in that position over someone more qualified who wasn't a Liberal donor.

Liberals under fire for partisan involvement in judicial appointments

E-mails obtained by The Globe show the participation of MPs, ministerial officials and party volunteers in judicial selection on federally appointed courts

www.theglobeandmail.com

Past Liberal donors still favoured for judicial appointments under Trudeau, Tories allege with new data

About 28% of federal judicial appointments or promotions have been people who have solely donated to the Liberals, compared to 4% who were solely Conservative…

nationalpost.com

 

[QV]

Has anyone been following the witness testimony at the commission so far?

 

[Quirky]

Has anyone been following the witness testimony at the commission so far?

Lots of complaining so far from people who lived there regarding the noise and occupation. Has nothing to do with the actual implementation of the EA just yet.

 

[RangerRay]

From The T-Star:

Ford government turned down appeal to help Ottawa with ‘Freedom Convoy,’ inquiry told

The inquiry is tasked with probing why the federal government triggered the act and examine the extraordinary police powers the decision created.

www.thestar.com

Ford government turned down appeal to help Ottawa with ‘Freedom Convoy,’ inquiry told — Toronto Star

‘Freedom Convoy’ demonstrators embarked on a lengthy occupation around Parliament Hill in February.

apple.news

A couple of things that jumped out at me from this report:

• The Province of Ontario refused to assist the City. The Province is now backing the implementation of the EA. They also refused to participate in meetings with the city and the Feds to resolve the problem
• The RCMP were concerned the City had no plan to deploy the extra police they wanted

-The City ignored warnings from hotels that the convoy was planning on staying a long time.

Sounds like a complete clusterf@&$. No wonder it turned into a shitshow.

 

[Remius]

From The T-Star:

Ford government turned down appeal to help Ottawa with ‘Freedom Convoy,’ inquiry told

The inquiry is tasked with probing why the federal government triggered the act and examine the extraordinary police powers the decision created.

www.thestar.com

Ford government turned down appeal to help Ottawa with ‘Freedom Convoy,’ inquiry told — Toronto Star

‘Freedom Convoy’ demonstrators embarked on a lengthy occupation around Parliament Hill in February.

apple.news

A couple of things that jumped out at me from this report:

• The Province of Ontario refused to assist the City. The Province is now backing the implementation of the EA. They also refused to participate in meetings with the city and the Feds to resolve the problem
• The RCMP were concerned the City had no plan to deploy the extra police they wanted

-The City ignored warnings from hotels that the convoy was planning on staying a long time.

Sounds like a complete clusterf@&$. No wonder it turned into a shitshow.

Meh, most convoy types and supporters gave Ford a pass for mandates, I’m sure he’ll get a pass for supporting the EA.

Still raises questions as to why Ford would actually support the implementation of the EA now when they wouldn’t work with the city or the feds then.

I have no doubt that the city had no real plan beyond « we need more people »

 

[Edward Campbell]

Meh, most convoy types and supporters gave Ford a pass for mandates, I’m sure he’ll get a pass for supporting the EA.

Still raises questions as to why Ford would actually support the implementation of the EA now when they wouldn’t work with the city or the feds then.

I have no doubt that the city had no real plan beyond « we need more people »

I suspect that Team Ford, Doug Ford himself, for that matter, has a very well developed tactical sense of "whatever (action or inaction) works for us, right now, is good. Whatever doesn't work for us, right now, is not so good."

My guess is that Ford, per se, has little to no strategic vision about Ontario and Canada because he doesn't think or care about anything after the next season. He can do that, successfully, I think, because he knows that the Ontario voters have very, very short memories and their votes are fairly easily bought - remember "buck-a-beer?"

But, I'm guessing, also, that the Ontario Conservatives, above and beyond Premier Ford, do have a strategic vision and I think it says: "all that really matters is political peace - political peace between Ontario and Ottawa, between Ontario and Québec; between Ontario and the West, between Ontario and BC and between Ontario and Atlantic Canada, too. Ontario is THE engine of Canada's economic future; the others matter, but not very much."

Arithmetically, for them, Canada > Ontario but Ontario >> than Canada minus Ontario.​

I suspect, further, that the Ontario Conservatives also believe that:

1. When Canada votes Liberal, Ontario, generally, votes Conservative, and vice versa; and
2. Canada is NOT going to vote Conservative (Pierre Poilievre) in (or before) 2025.

My 2¢.

 

[Quirky]

I have no doubt that the city had no real plan beyond « we need more people »

City and CAF are using the same strategy.

 

[Good2Golf]

I don’t trust a single thing coming out of any City of Ottawa official, from the Mayor on down. The T-Star’s piece sounds like some high grade historical revisionism…so what was it, yes - desperate times needing emergency measures (as the city Mgr said they identified as early as 31 Jan), or no - we didn’t ask for the EA and just wanted some more cops to integrate into our solid plan to handle the situation?

Maskirovka…