Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[childs56]

It may not be the main objective, but I think it was an objective.

Have people forgotten what it was like in Spring of 2020? Folks were trying to figure out what happened and how to stop the spread. The world was essentially building an airplane while flying it - we don’t have the 20/20 (heh) hindsight of now, and we can’t 100% predict what would have happened if things turned out differently.

Okay then, what do I know, I only lived through it and talked to people on the ground to see what their damage was.

There was no unifying issue other than general frustration, but there absolutely were clueless assholes protesting not being able to cross the US border without a vaccine.

The truck protests originally started in BC with Truckers out there. (they were not white racists as many believe) Many of them were doing cross border shipping, for example, they would travel over the border to get aviation fuel. Then head to Vancouver Airport fuel farm, unload and back three or so times a day. Others were delivering containers from the ship yards to storage facilities the other side of the border. Often never having person to person contact.
Yet they were being forced to shut down due to the vaccine mandate imposed. Their jobs were extremely important such as delivering food and fuel. Yet they were being forced to shut down. With no compensation. Truck payments are upwards of $3000 month as is insurances. Makes life hard. There was a long list of other things that had happened that they were upset over, loading times at the federally regulated docks. , fuel costs, hours of service etc.

There also absolutely were equally clueless assholes that wanted to overthrow the government and replace them with some kind of appointed council. Remnants of said assholes are still in the city.

Those people were there before and after the actual protest. They took over some church, tried to get the GG to use their powers to remove trudeau through some rule that had nothing to do with what they were talking about. They had nothing to do with the original protest but tagged along to see if they would get more support. Turns out more then a few left their ranks when they realized it was a silly play.

Not really sure what you read, but hard to forget what some random asshole decided to yell at people in the grocery store, or the other ones while driving (dangerously) around the neighbourhood in their stupid shortbox pickup.

I was yelled at for not wearing mask, outside in my yard by some jerk. I was also chastised and ridiculed for not getting vaccinated in the first waves. It takes all kinds to make things go hmmm.

The majority of people that I talked to were A) dumb AF B) completely misinformed and C) Loudly demonstrating both, in the most ignorant matter they could.

Most of the people who Visited Ottawa surprising were not from out west. They were locals. So figure that one out.

You know what isn't going to win sympathy? Slow rolling the main arteries and slowing down things like ambulances. Waited 40 minutes for an ambulance in the middle of this, and wasn't because they were stretched thin or on a call; took them that long to detour.

We wait for 30-40 min for ambulances right now there are no protests going on. It was also proven that the Police had shut down and detoured routes through out the Ottawa region.
Many of the road blocks from the protesters allowed emergency vehicles through. Only to be blocked by the Police. It was not a great process, but the Police were responsible for much of the road chaos.

Again, you seem to not read my posts very well. I have never stated support for the acts of any protestors, though I never believed such acts reasonably amounted to some sort of existential national threat. I'm very much for the rule of law and don't believe the OPS should have directed protestors to park vehicles on city streets, then let them stay there.

The OPS and main protest group had an agreement to move to the Park where the protests usually go to. The City council got involved and told them no. That caused some issues of political interference. Which was unfortunate.

For some reason you're now going on about personal anecdotes of your interactions with protestors, which are entirely separate from anything I mentioned. I bet most protests you go to will be filled with people who are inarticulate, illogical, and misunderstand the exact cause. That's not a statement on the merits of stated cause itself, however.

I've lived in downtown Ottawa too (close to Rideau St) and have plenty of anecdotes about being yelled at on the street, disturbances at grocery stores, witnessing assaults, etc... and that's not even considering any protest. Lowertown has the highest crime rates in the city, and shootings/stabbings in the Byward Market are not uncommon... so what?... Should we invoke the Emergencies Act to clean the streets since the OPS won't? Do you think such an action would be covered by Section 1 of The Charter? You've certainly made constitutional assertions before.

Crime is getting out of hand all over. Sad to hear

 

[childs56]

They weren't called Nazis for because they were being loud and obnoxious, they were being called Nazis BECAUSE THERE WAS PEOPLE FLYING LITEARL NAZI FLAGS AT THE PROTEST.

Funny part is the flag person was never identified, but lost of suspicions as to who it was and why they were there. one flag among thousands does not represent the majority of people there from all walks of life

This is just absolute hogwash on par with stolen US election claims. What evidence do you have to corroborate ANY of this? It's nothing but fantastical conjecture.

lol, its all actually recorded the PM is on record calling the Convoy members those names, they did seize bank accounts, they have a misdemeanor charge that the court case went on for over 30 days. When a murder trial gets 14 -21 days.

 

[Lumber]

Funny part is the flag person was never identified, but lost of suspicions as to who it was and why they were there. one flag among thousands does not represent the majority of people there from all walks of life.

Yea, again, conspiracy theories. One of the convoy protestor's lawyers tried to bring this claim up at the inquiry, got shut down, and subsequently sued for his false accusations about "false-flags"

lol, its all actually recorded the PM is on record calling the Convoy members those names, they did seize bank accounts, they have a misdemeanor charge that the court case went on for over 30 days. When a murder trial gets 14 -21 days.

Dude, I'm referring to the implication that the PM purposefully fomented the situation for his own political gain; I'm not denying that any of the things that happened happened.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

What I'm enjoying about this thread?
Generally the folks who think blocking peoples passage shouldn't be a problem seem to be the same folks who rail when base civilian workers go on strike and picket at the gate.

 

[Booter]

when I saw the nazi flag, I thought it was a dumb miscalculation. But I also believed they were using it in calling the government Nazis… since that was the line they kept repeating. But we have no way of knowing- which is why that’s a dumb move.

 

[TacticalTea]

What I'm enjoying about this thread?
Generally the folks who think blocking peoples passage shouldn't be a problem seem to be the same folks who rail when base civilian workers go on strike and picket at the gate.

I was gonna write a counter to that point, but then realized this is Canada and it literally doesn't matter in any way whatsoever if we don't have access to our bases.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I was gonna write a counter to that point, but then realized this is Canada and it literally doesn't matter in any way whatsoever if we don't have access to our bases.

But today was "another unit needs our trucks" day......

 

[YZT580]

They weren't called Nazis for because they were being loud and obnoxious, they were being called Nazis BECAUSE THERE WAS PEOPLE FLYING LITEARL NAZI FLAGS AT THE PROTEST.

This is just absolute hogwash on par with stolen US election claims. What evidence do you have to corroborate ANY of this? It's nothing but fantastical conjecture.

I don't believe in coincidence. You have two choices: either our leadership is totally incompetent and out of touch with reality or they saw a situation developing and took advantage of it. Why else do nothing for two weeks and then drop a sledge on the whole affair? Language was chosen to infuriate and hopefully cause folks to do something stupid. Yes there were idiots being stupid but then there are always a few of those. So which is it, is the leadership totally incompetent and stupid or are they more Machiavellian in their actions. Your call, I will go along with whatever you decide 'cause I don't know although I do tend towards the later. Oh, and by the way, I happen to have a confederate troopers cap and a large scale model of the General Lee on my book shelf. That doesn't make me a racist or give to the right to call me that simply because I wear my cap.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They weren't called Nazis for because they were being loud and obnoxious, they were being called Nazis BECAUSE THERE WAS PEOPLE FLYING LITEARL NAZI FLAGS AT THE PROTEST.

There was one POS who had a Nazi flag, he was quickly chased down and disappeared. Someone else drew a swastika on a Canadian flag in a bid to accuse the government of acting like Nazis.

The government, including Trudeau, tripped over themselves racing to accuse the protestors of being Nazis. Not surprising.

A truck with 3 or 4 men were observed with a Taliban flag in Toronto a few months ago. The government didn't insinuate everyone was Taliban. Also not surprising.

 

[OldSolduer]

SO while we are on the subject of Nazis and someone says "so and so (pick anyone) is acting like a Nazi" ask them this:

1. Did so and so summarily execute someone for disagreeing with the leaders?
2. Have any concentration camps been established in Canada to house (pick a demographic)?
3. Are there any death camps in Canada where MASS executions have been carried out?

NO - because real Nazis kill by the millions.

The Emergencies Act doesn't go that far.

 

[TacticalTea]

There was one POS who had a Nazi flag, he was quickly chased down and disappeared. Someone else drew a swastika on a Canadian flag in a bid to accuse the government of acting like Nazis.

The government, including Trudeau, tripled over themselves racing to accuse the protestors of being Nazis. Not surprising.

A truck with 3 or 4 men were observed with a Taliban flag in Toronto a few months ago. The government didn't insinuate everyone was Taliban. Also not surprising.

Smart comparison.

 

[childs56]

Yea, again, conspiracy theories. One of the convoy protestor's lawyers tried to bring this claim up at the inquiry, got shut down, and subsequently sued for his false accusations about "false-flags"

Funny how it got shut down.
Fact: there was a guy there with a swastika flag, fact he was told to leave by members there protesting saying they wanted nothing to do with what he stood for. He was called out for being well known locally.
conspiracy: the convoy protesters were racist, bigoted fringe minority.
Fact: people from all backgrounds, walks of life attended and supported the convoy. Including vagrants who disturb the peace.
Fact: apartment foyer was caught on fire and blamed on the protesters. Fact: local criminals caught.
Conspiracy: the liberals supported paid actors to try and disrupt the protests and turn them violent.
Fact: RCMP admitted to having instigators/ actors in other protests in the past.
Fact: Convoy supporters raised over $10 million in a couple of weeks, only to be seized by the government.
Next fact: another $12-14 million was raised in the following weeks. after the initial money was seized.
Conspiracy: majority of money raised was by foreigners trying to cause political interference.
Fact: majority of money was raised in Canada by Canadians.
Fact; Federal Government Employment went from 104,175 to 121217 full time from 2019- 2022. well over 100,000 reasons to support the government and be against the convoy.

Dude, I'm referring to the implication that the PM purposefully fomented the situation for his own political gain; I'm not denying that any of the things that happened happened.

he is not very smart and I think he was past that point by then.
What he did do is underestimate the Blue Collar worker in Canada and how fed up they were with his mandates. The amount of money they legally raised in a short time scared the crap out of him and his supporters including the Bloc and NDP.

 

[dimsum]

I was gonna write a counter to that point, but then realized this is Canada and it literally doesn't matter in any way whatsoever if we don't have access to our bases.

The folks in trouble hoping that our SAR sqns rescue them would probably disagree.

 

[Brad Sallows]

They weren't called Nazis for because they were being loud and obnoxious, they were being called Nazis BECAUSE THERE WAS PEOPLE FLYING LITEARL NAZI FLAGS AT THE PROTEST.

Huh. Wonder what happens to Parliamentarians if someone walks across Parliament Hill every day carrying one.

 

[Lumber]

@Jarnhamar @OldSolduer @TacticalTea @Brad Sallows

Just to be clear, because I think you all missed my point, I wasn't arguing that the displaying of the Nazi flag (and the confederate flag) by however many parties warranted disparaging the entire group.

I was only arguing against the position of @YZT580 who claimed that the reason for calling them nazis was because they were "loud and obnoxious."

 

[Lumber]

Huh. Wonder what happens to Parliamentarians if someone walks across Parliament Hill every day carrying one.

I fail to see your point?

 

[Brad Sallows]

I fail to see your point?

Obviously, if you couldn't figure out the problem in the first place.

 

[dimsum]

Obviously, if you couldn't figure out the problem in the first place.

Then I’ll admit that I can’t figure out the problem either.

A parliamentarian would be thrown out of any party in Canada if they were dumb enough to be spotted with a Nazi flag.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Then I’ll admit that I can’t figure out the problem either.

A parliamentarian would be thrown out of any party in Canada if they were dumb enough to be spotted with a Nazi flag.

Guilt-by-association. And exaggerating "one" known instance into "plural", and using all-caps doesn't exactly convey knowledge of that, or reasonably emphasize the point that what's wrong with the picture is the people making the guilt-by-association charges. They're the fools; emphasize their foolishness instead of offering what might look like a half-hearted defence of them.

 

[Navy_Pete]

What I'm enjoying about this thread?
Generally the folks who think blocking peoples passage shouldn't be a problem seem to be the same folks who rail when base civilian workers go on strike and picket at the gate.

They aren't the same thing, but some local unions did an absolute shit job of making sure the protestors at the gate stayed civil while some CAF members were also dumb meatheads, so YMMV at different bases.

I don't remember any civie workers shitting in the base parking lot though, pissing on monuments or shaking down homeless shelters for food while saying people should mutiny against the base commander though.

Big difference between an actual protest or strike and what happened here. Ottawa gets protest marches all the time that shut down some streets temporarily along major routes, or other events that shut down the area around Parliament, that's just part of living in the capitol.

I don't support the financial freezing of people's accounts without the normal judicial process for oversight, and don't think the EA should have been required, but the actual clearing out of the encampments downtown and dispersment of the protests should have happened within a few days, not taken weeks. I think the police went a bit overboard with the PS strike protests in front of Parliament by shutting down things like the food tent, but probably a happy middle ground somewhere.

The thing I haven't seen anywhere is someone with a clear plan on how to actually coordinate multi-jurisdictional police actions (or general intergovernmental work). With the amount of superflouous organizations in the GoC, provincial and municipal level boggles my mind we don't have some kind of FEMA equivalent or a 'make shit happen' organization, and things that happen all the time (like forest fires) is still ad hoc.

Seems like a lost opportunity to actually learn a lesson, but I guess that's less sexy then 'pwning the Libs/Cons' on tik tok for likes and shares over stump speeches.