Future Helicopters

[KevinB]

Separated by….ummm…a brain?

Well I question the brain aspect, based on some of his other comments

Also…


59??? laughs in B-52ese…
View attachment 93304

You are much more knowledgeable on the Hook airframe life - but I would have thought that 59 years is a long time for one of them to still be flying - it sound like they are trying to divest the older ones for newer airframe off the line.

Seeing some of the "upgrades" to the BUFF fleet over the years, it seems that a lot of those airframe have been almost totally rebuilt.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Separated by….ummm…a brain?

Also…


59??? laughs in B-52ese…
View attachment 93304

The difference is that the Buff wants to fly, helicopters have to be forced into the air and are way to eager to return to the ground, any way they can.

 

[Good2Golf]

The difference is that the Buff wants to fly, helicopters have to be forced into the air and are way to eager to return to the ground, any way they can.

Pretty sure that helicopters are so ugly that they are repelled by the Earth…

 

[dapaterson]

Pretty sure that helicopters are so ugly that they are repelled by the Earth…

If not helicopters, then their pilots

 

[Good2Golf]

Equally true.

 

[armrdsoul77]

Canadian Chinooks acquired in the '70's,sold to the Dutch in the '90's are continuing to fly as aerial firefighters in the states.

 

[KevinB]

And sigh…

New US Army helo engine lifts off, but may be headed for cancellation

After roughly $1.5 billion spent over two decades, the future of the U.S. Army's Improved Turbine Engine Program is in question.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Good2Golf]

And sigh…

New US Army helo engine lifts off, but may be headed for cancellation

After roughly $1.5 billion spent over two decades, the future of the U.S. Army's Improved Turbine Engine Program is in question.

www.defensenews.com

Not surprising. With FARA cancelled, the investment to re-engine the remaining 64s and 60s to their end of lives is not a very compelling business case.

I wouldn’t send the development engines to the wreckers (a la Avro Arrow of Nimrod Mk4 style), but I wouldn’t put any more money into the program for a bit. See how the no-FARA thing settles out…

 

[calculus]

I'd like to see some of that new defence industrial development money go to these guys:

Horizon Boosted by Transition Flight with Cavorite X7 VTOL Demonstrator | AIN

Canadian start-up is now beginning to assemble full-scale hybrid-electric prototype

www.ainonline.com

 

[KevinB]

I'd like to see some of that new defence industrial development money go to these guys:

Horizon Boosted by Transition Flight with Cavorite X7 VTOL Demonstrator | AIN

Canadian start-up is now beginning to assemble full-scale hybrid-electric prototype

www.ainonline.com

I’m not sure the design model would be a fit for defense related activities.

Batteries don’t react well to ground fire - so they would require a significant amount of armor to be added that would then hamper the payload.

But it’s an interesting concept regardless.

 

[OldSolduer]

Pretty sure that helicopters are so ugly that they are repelled by the Earth…

Hey the Chinook is the Kate Beckinsale of the chopper world.

 

[KevinB]

I’m not sure the design model would be a fit for defense related activities.

Batteries don’t react well to ground fire - so they would require a significant amount of armor to be added that would then hamper the payload.

But it’s an interesting concept regardless.

Though @calculus 's article just spun up an interesting idea - I am very curious about one of those as a OWUAS, as the batteries can make a hell of a secondary incendiary on top of the payload.

 

[Kirkhill]

Old kit not dead yet.... again?

Earlier I posted about the Ukrainians finding uses for 105mm towed L119 light guns.
Now, it seems, that they have decided there is a use for the helicopters that had been written off as unsuitable for front line use.

They are now repurposing them as drone interceptors.

Zelensky: Additional Helicopter Units to Combat Drones - Militarnyi

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced a decision to expand the capabilities of the army aviation to enhance the counteraction against enemy UAVs

militarnyi.com

....




So an AH-1Z and an AH-64, as well as the UH-60, can all carry four pods of 19 70mm rockets. Loaded with APKWS successfully being employed against Shahed type UAVs and cruise missiles from trucks and fast movers like F16s and F18s they would make an interesting local air interceptor force.

A flight of 3 parked in a parking lot anywhere would represent 228 potential Shahed kills.

How many pods can a Griffon lift?

 

[KevinB]

Old kit not dead yet.... again?

Earlier I posted about the Ukrainians finding uses for 105mm towed L119 light guns.
Now, it seems, that they have decided there is a use for the helicopters that had been written off as unsuitable for front line use.

They are now repurposing them as drone interceptors.

Zelensky: Additional Helicopter Units to Combat Drones - Militarnyi

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced a decision to expand the capabilities of the army aviation to enhance the counteraction against enemy UAVs

militarnyi.com

....

View attachment 96219View attachment 96220


So an AH-1Z and an AH-64, as well as the UH-60, can all carry four pods of 19 70mm rockets. Loaded with APKWS successfully being employed against Shahed type UAVs and cruise missiles from trucks and fast movers like F16s and F18s they would make an interesting local air interceptor force.

A flight of 3 parked in a parking lot anywhere would represent 228 potential Shahed kills.

How many pods can a Griffon lift?

There are larger pods than the 19 pack.
As well the early Cobra only took 2/stub wing but the later Apache’s could do 4
Some of the DAP’s had well over 100 on each side using the LAU-61, which would have been 6-8 on the wing pieces.

Also given that Arnold Defense makes 23 packs that have been bought for a while by SOCOM. I suspect there is probably a method to put 4 or more of those underwing even though they aren’t technically helicopter pods.


Realistically weight isn’t a huge issue for them, the LAU-61 Digital Launcher is 205lbs / pod unloaded.


However I’m not sure that using rockets is the most cost effective method of downing SUAS, as gun system are going to be a fraction of the cost / round.

 

[Kirkhill]

There are larger pods than the 19 pack.
As well the early Cobra only took 2/stub wing but the later Apache’s could do 4
Some of the DAP’s had well over 100 on each side using the LAU-61, which would have been 6-8 on the wing pieces.

Also given that Arnold Defense makes 23 packs that have been bought for a while by SOCOM. I suspect there is probably a method to put 4 or more of those underwing even though they aren’t technically helicopter pods.


Realistically weight isn’t a huge issue for them, the LAU-61 Digital Launcher is 205lbs / pod unloaded.


However I’m not sure that using rockets is the most cost effective method of downing SUAS, as gun system are going to be a fraction of the cost / round.

Aren't F16s and F18s armed with guns? And yet they seem happy to adopt the APKWS in the CUAS role.

 

[Kirkhill]

The Falcon’s New Fangs: F-16s Load Up with 42 APKWS II Rockets for Drone Defense

Could Ukraine be getting this upgrade?

www.wesodonnell.com

 

[KevinB]

Aren't F16s and F18s armed with guns? And yet they seem happy to adopt the APKWS in the CUAS role.

I was more talking about a Geopard like system.

The 20mm M61 Vulcan on the F16/18’s isn’t ideal and doesn’t have the FCS to track the system as well as dedicated AD systems.

 

[Kirkhill]

IIRC the Apache has the original M230 30x113 while the Viper has a 3 barrel 20 mm Gatling?

And the UH-60 has no inherent gun but can lift various.

 

[armrdsoul77]

UH-60 Black Hawk Cargo Drone With Clamshell Nose Breaks Cover (Updated)

The new U-Hawk could act as a launch platform for dozens of smaller drones or loitering munitions, or lug thousands of pounds of cargo.

www.twz.com