FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

[MarkOttawa]

milnews.ca: From Airbus news release:

...
Canada's C295Ws will be delivered starting three years after contract award. In service, they will join five Airbus CC-150 aircraft used in the air-to-air refueling, transport, and VIP travel roles...

Why doesn't RCAF or our gov't mention those important subsidiary roles?  The RCAF’s 32 older-model Hercules are being followed-on by just 17 new C-130Js; my impression is the RCAF has always wanted the new SAR aircraft to be able to double when necessary as a tactical transport in order to keep that capability up.

Something that has not been mentioned publicly for years for no good reason that I can understand.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MilEME09]

milnews.ca: From Airbus news release:

Why doesn't RCAF or our gov't mention those important subsidiary roles?  The RCAF’s 32 older-model Hercules are being followed-on by just 17 new C-130Js; my impression is the RCAF has always wanted the new SAR aircraft to be able to double when necessary as a tactical transport in order to keep that capability up.

Something that has not been mentioned publicly for years for no good reason that I can understand.

Mark
Ottawa

The C-295W has a fair bit of cargo capacity as well, not C-130J good, but enough to fill that light tactical transport role

 

[kev994]

Enough to take the weekly pallet of fresh food and passengers to Alert

 

[jmt18325]

The C-295W has a fair bit of cargo capacity as well, not C-130J good, but enough to fill that light tactical transport role

It's apparently got a longer cargo hold than the C-130, so it should do well with light but large loads.

 

[RaceAddict]

It's apparently got a longer cargo hold than the C-130, so it should do well with light but large loads.

Longer than the older Hercs, not longer than our C-130J-30s.

Much less useful in terms of diameter though.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Detailed image from Airbus:

Mark
Ottawa

 

[The Bread Guy]

milnews.ca: From Airbus news release:

Why doesn't RCAF or our gov't mention those important subsidiary roles?  ...

My guesses: 
-  They forgot.
-  They don't know.
-  It's back to only one use.
-  The RCAF isn't trying to sell the plane, only explain how it'll be using it.
;D

 

[ringo]

How many a/c did Embraer KC390 or Leonardo C-27J offer for FWSAR and how did there cost compare, or is everyone sworn to secrecy.

 

[The Bread Guy]

And, from one of the other contenders ...

Team Spartan, which includes a joint-venture between Leonardo Aircraft and General Dynamics Mission Systems–Canada, has been informed that it was not the successful bidder in the competition for the Fixed-Wing Search and Rescue (FWSAR) program.

As Team Spartan has not yet had the opportunity to avail itself of a debrief, it is not in a position to make any further comments at this time.

 

[MarkOttawa]

I goofed on Airbus news release and C295W transport/refueling role (though the transport role still there)--should have grokked on VIP bit.  A tweet:

Scott Davy
‏@ScottMDavy

@Mark3Ds FYI, when you mentioned air to air refuelling etc., Airbus is talking about the CC-150. Re-read it and it will make sense.
https://twitter.com/ScottMDavy/status/807007986338197504

Mark
Ottawa

 

[speedbird]

I goofed on Airbus news release and C295W transport/refueling role (though the transport role still there)--should have grokked on VIP bit.  A tweet:

Mark
Ottawa

Happens to the best of us

-Scott at Defence Major Projects

 

[dapaterson]

How many a/c did Embraer KC390 or Leonardo C-27J offer for FWSAR and how did there cost compare, or is everyone sworn to secrecy.

All that material would be a commercial confidence, and not releasable information by DND.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I was under the impression that the KC390 was not considered has it hadn't been certified for flight at the time of the "competition".

On the other hand, Airbus should have no problem whatsoever with the 100% commercial offset. It's a little known fact that Canada's aerospace industry, and in particular most of the Montreal technopole companies, already build for every constructors worldwide. Heck! Even Bombardier builds parts for Boeing's larger airplanes at their Quebec and Ontario plants. So most companies here already build parts for Airbus. All they have to do is place a few extra contracts over the course of construction and probably have it covered.

Just a question for those who know (if permitted): The release does not specify the type of the 360 degrees radar. Anybody knows if it's the same that Airbus proposes on its 295MPA version? And can it be used as a overland search radar or will it be limited to ocean surface search?
 

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

So, 16 C-295W replacing how many Buffalo's and Short-Herc's?

 

[captloadie]

We have to get away from looking at now many new airframes are replacing how many old airframes. The C295 is expected to be a single role aircraft, that role being SAR. Yes, it could be used, if required and available for other things (like the Buffalo is now), but its primary role will be SAR. The number purchased is the number required to fill this primary role.

As the Comd RCAF stated in his response to a media question, we don't have a plan in place yet on what we will do with the Buffaloes and H-Model Hercs. It is likely that the Bufs will be retired and disposed of. The H-model question is more difficult, because they do more than just SAR. They provide tactical AAR, which we don't have replacement for, and they still have a transport role. I'm not certain whether the J-model can be modified to do AAR, under the current contract we have with LM.

 

[kev994]

I was under the impression that the KC390 was not considered has it hadn't been certified for flight at the time of the "competition".

I believe they submitted a bid but suspect it was non-compliant for not being in production.

 

[RaceAddict]

So, 16 C-295W replacing how many Buffalo's and Short-Herc's?

CC-130 says we have 13 Hercs (12 H, 1 E)

CC-115 says 6 Buffs.

 

[jmt18325]

I doubt that we're retiring the C-130H aircraft in Winnipeg as a result of this order.  There are 4 - 5 of those (not sure if the one that burned was scrapped).

 

[RaceAddict]

The H-model question is more difficult, because they do more than just SAR. They provide tactical AAR, which we don't have replacement for, and they still have a transport role. I'm not certain whether the J-model can be modified to do AAR, under the current contract we have with LM.

Perhaps when the H Hercs are due to be retired the KC-390 will be in production. Competitive with the C-130J in terms of airlift capabilities, plus AAR with 160,000L fuel capacity. They're supposedly going ultra-aggressive on pricing vs LockMart and Airbus. (Plus it already has Canadian content via Héroux Devtek landing gear.)

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

We have to get away from looking at now many new airframes are replacing how many old airframes. The C295 is expected to be a single role aircraft, that role being SAR. Yes, it could be used, if required and available for other things (like the Buffalo is now), but its primary role will be SAR. The number purchased is the number required to fill this primary role.

As the Comd RCAF stated in his response to a media question, we don't have a plan in place yet on what we will do with the Buffaloes and H-Model Hercs. It is likely that the Bufs will be retired and disposed of. The H-model question is more difficult, because they do more than just SAR. They provide tactical AAR, which we don't have replacement for, and they still have a transport role. I'm not certain whether the J-model can be modified to do AAR, under the current contract we have with LM.

It seems odd that the RCAF would post a Request for Bid for new assets, without having first determined what their objective structure looks like.

More the point, it would seem most rational to first agree upon and approve the future structure, then write the RFB for the new assets to dovetail into that objective structure....

Or am I the crazy one?  :warstory: