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FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

  • Thread starter Thread starter aesop081
  • Start date Start date
OldSolduer said:
I would love to see an independent inquiry about why it takes so long to procure defence equipment when it’s pretty obvious there’s a need.
Click to expand...


Honestly the RCAF sort of owns this one, as they had written the PSpec clearly for a preferred platform, and then didn’t do either a proper (what we’d call a JNA: Justification, Notice of Award) to explain the Sole Source, or stand behind the JNA when it got push back.

Then if they did what seems to be acceptance of a non compliant platform or at very least a platform that wasn’t ready to go as advertised.
 
Get more Hercs is the best solution. It can stay on station, parts and training are already in the system, the ultimate multi role aircraft. No more orphan fleet that can’t do its job. Stop wasting time and money on failure. How many times do we need to repeat this.
Cyclone
LSVW
TAPV
Griffon

Could this aircraft do what was required during Boxtop 22?
 
T700 said:
Get more Hercs is the best solution. It can stay on station, parts and training are already in the system, the ultimate multi role aircraft. No more orphan fleet that can’t do its job. Stop wasting time and money on failure. How many times do we need to repeat this.
Cyclone
LSVW
TAPV
Griffon

Could this aircraft do what was required during Boxtop 22?
Click to expand...
In principle I agree with you.

@Zoomie can likely explain why the JHerc wasn’t the preference for all of SAR fixed wing tasks.
As I understood it, it was more $, and larger than required for many SAR functions. Plus the sensor suite desired would have made the JHerc SAR birds rather dedicated birds that one wouldn’t want to necessarily task for routine transport.

Not being a Pilot or a SARTech, I couldn’t tell you what the main requirements are for a SAR bird in this situation.
 
KevinB said:
In principle I agree with you.

@Zoomie can likely explain why the JHerc wasn’t the preference for all of SAR fixed wing tasks.
As I understood it, it was more $, and larger than required for many SAR functions. Plus the sensor suite desired would have made the JHerc SAR birds rather dedicated birds that one wouldn’t want to necessarily task for routine transport.

Not being a Pilot or a SARTech, I couldn’t tell you what the main requirements are for a SAR bird in this situation.
Click to expand...
Which is way the C27J came into being. However I can understand reluctance to work with that company, after some of the dick moves they played.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
Which is way the C27J came into being. However I can understand reluctance to work with that company, after some of the dick moves they played.
Click to expand...
I have zero idea on what Leonardo did with the Spartan.
I know they are a very appreciated plane down here in SOCOM as it is a much easier aircraft for small team work than the JHerc for several mission profiles.
 
Some fuckary about not supporting the airframes if they were sold, to Canada as I recall. Also part supply for their other products has not been great. I could see the lure of dealing with a company like Airbus, over them. Sort of like Sikorsky, they couldn't possibly eff up a Maritime ASW helicopter, since they invented the role, could they?
 
KevinB said:
I have zero idea on what Leonardo did with the Spartan.
I know they are a very appreciated plane down here in SOCOM as it is a much easier aircraft for small team work than the JHerc for several mission profiles.
Click to expand...
from wiki: On 26 January 2012, the Department of Defense announced plans to retire all 38 USAF C-27Js on order because of excess intra-theater airlift capacity and budgetary pressures;[42] the C-130 would perform its functions.[43] In February 2012, Alenia warned that it would not provide support for C-27Js resold by the U.S. to international customers in competition with future orders
 
Colin Parkinson said:
from wiki: On 26 January 2012, the Department of Defense announced plans to retire all 38 USAF C-27Js on order because of excess intra-theater airlift capacity and budgetary pressures;[42] the C-130 would perform its functions.[43] In February 2012, Alenia warned that it would not provide support for C-27Js resold by the U.S. to international customers in competition with future orders
Click to expand...
Okay that part I remember.

We retained them and SOCOM got some as did the USCG (for pretty much the same role that Canada has…)

I wasn’t tracking that the RCAF was trying to get used USAF C27J’s, they have needed a rebuild for the sensor stuff for a SAR bird anyway - the ones down here where stock cargo ones, and had been ridden pretty hard going into tight spots in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Would have been smart to get a number of C27J direct and then get future ones ‘not planned for initially’ from the USAF.
They have a new owner anyway now.
 
suffolkowner said:
this is pretty insane. Big risk of turning ugly. Theres what 6 aircraft in Comox? The rest in Europe including 3 that went back?
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There's supposed to be 6 in Comox because the OTU is there. Not because they need 6 aircraft based on SAR demand.
 
KevinB said:
Honestly the RCAF sort of owns this one, as they had written the PSpec clearly for a preferred platform, and then didn’t do either a proper (what we’d call a JNA: Justification, Notice of Award) to explain the Sole Source, or stand behind the JNA when it got push back.

Then if they did what seems to be acceptance of a non compliant platform or at very least a platform that wasn’t ready to go as advertised.
Click to expand...

I participated in the project. And explained what happened up thread. Blame the government of the day. Not the air force for this one. The government of the day decided that leveraging IRBs was more important than making sure all military requirements were mandatory.

If the air force really had its way, they would have just bought more Hercs. Even the Spartans were actually a second choice.
 
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