Gas training in CF?

[arctictern]

If you mix Chocolate milk with Coca Cola it will have a chemical reaction.

 

[rounder]

It was a sort of "learning experience" for them.

  Armyboi are you right out of'er? Give your head a shake...  I've read alot of responses you've given on this site, and I know people give you a hard time, but wake up man!!! Nco's should not be pulling that kind of S!@T.

 

[Hansol]

hehehe i figure its not about a "learning experience" or about the fact that you look up to your WO and officers, i figure its almost common sense. I mean, c'mon, gorging yourself on anything, whether it be milk, cookies, or steak before going into a gas chamber? Also, in the american version of the gas chamber, during their BMQ recruits arent allowed to eat sweets. Then, on the day of the gas excercise, suddenly the instructors don't care if you eat as much cake as you want? sorry boys, but use your head..... cheers -Cameron

 

[patt]

hehehe i figure its not about a "learning experience" or about the fact that you look up to your WO and officers, i figure its almost common sense. I mean, c'mon, gorging yourself on anything, whether it be milk, cookies, or steak before going into a gas chamber? Also, in the american version of the gas chamber, during their BMQ recruits arent allowed to eat sweets. Then, on the day of the gas excercise, suddenly the instructors don't care if you eat as much cake as you want? sorry boys, but use your head..... cheers -Cameron

lol yea thats gotta be funny..the instructors just wait and see if the students listen to them or not!

 

[NavyGrunt]

I think those types of experiences are fine. A few minutes of pain, a memory forever. Big deal. When Im on the recieving end I dont care. Hell I do things to myself in my spare time that make me throw up....why cant my bosses at work do the same? :-X I obviously like it lol. Otherwise I'd leave the tequila alone.....and thats never going to happen.....hold the lemon, no lime, and salt? No thanks....

 

[dutchie]

Leaders are supposed to lead by example. Did the Instructors down a pint of milk prior to going into the gas hut? Did they follow thier own advice? I suspect not.

What those 'Leaders' did was total shiite. You don't purposefuly cause harm to your troops just for shits and giggles. By doing this they show a severe lack of respect for their recruits, and the smart ones would see that. Once recruits lose respect for their instructors, it's game over. Those instructors will be fighting an uphill (and losing) battle for respect based on trust from that point on.

What a bunch of amatuers.

Armyboi and anyone else that thinks this is 'cool' or just part of the army fraternity: it's not. Train troops hard, but don't screw them over. What they should have done is made them run their ass off in or right before getting into the hut (the instructors doing the same of course). That is reasonable because troops should be expected to fight and sweat in an NBC environment - they sure as hell shouldn't expect to drink milk. If you want to practice mask clearing drills (ie-if you vomit), fine, but that's not what this was. They lied to you, plain and simple. If you think that's cool, Armyboi, you have a lot to learn.

 

[Inch]

Nah... Their W.O.'s shouldn't be beaten.   It was a sort of "learning experience" for them.   Plus, one of the "traditions" would be to dish out some of what you got when you did your BMQ.   That would be one of them, and there's lots of others.

Consider it a friendly "Hasing" into their world

Hazing is not an acceptable practice in the CF, in any form. It's not a tradition to dish out what you got, that's just plain immature and very unprofessional. If you give them the option, it can be a fun experience, if you don't, that's hazing and not accepted, period. I never did understand people's fascination with giving it to the new guy, sure everyone has been tasked to get the BFA for the Carl G and other shenanigans, that's all in good fun and doesn't hurt anyone. Anything other than that and it's bullshit.

Caesar, you replied while I was typing, well put.

 

[rounder]

Leaders are supposed to lead by example. Did the Instructors down a pint of milk prior to going into the gas hut? Did they follow thier own advice? I suspect not.

What those 'Leaders' did was total shiite. You don't purposefuly cause harm to your troops just for shits and giggles. By doing this they show a severe lack of respect for their recruits, and the smart ones would see that. Once recruits lose respect for their instructors, it's game over. Those instructors will be fighting an uphill (and losing) battle for respect based on trust from that point on.

What a bunch of amatuers.

Armyboi and anyone else that thinks this is 'cool' or just part of the army fraternity: it's not. Train troops hard, but don't screw them over. What they should have done is made them run their *** off in or right before getting into the hut (the instructors doing the same of course). That is reasonable because troops should be expected to fight and sweat in an NBC environment - they sure as heck shouldn't expect to drink milk. If you want to practice mask clearing drills (ie-if you vomit), fine, but that's not what this was. They lied to you, plain and simple. If you think that's cool, Armyboi, you have a lot to learn.

BINGO!! Another smart highlander

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

I understand where you're coming from, and i agree. But for the record, my mate has a good humour and he had a good laugh about it, but it was a risk that the staff should have probably steered clear of.

 

[dutchie]

To follow-up on what I posted earlier. These instructors are not leaders. Below is a list of the 'Principles of Leadership', and how they stacked up.

1-Lead by example FAILED
2-Seek and accept responsibility
3-Appreciate your strengths and limitations and pursue self improvement;
4-Know your troops and promote their welfare FAILED
5-Train your followers as a team and employ them to their capabilities;
6-Make sound and timely decisions FAILED
7-Achieve professional competence;
8-Ensure that your followers know your meaning and intent and lead them to accomplish the mission FAILED
9-Develop the leadership potential in your followers; and FAILED
10-Keep your followers informed of the mission the changing situation and the overall picture FAILED

6 out of 10 Principles of Leadership FAILED. And I was being nice on a couple of them, namely # 2 and #7.

 

[dutchie]

I can understand why'd you be mad because they "screwed their troops over", but it wasn't anything serious.  It would be one thing to lead your men to the enemy so they can see what simmunition feels like (ouch ), but this was just a little joke against the new guys.

you don't know what you're talking about. Where do you get your expertice? Ghost Recon? Stories of your 'ex-CSM' at your 'Corps' who just got back from Wainwright this summer?

If you don't know what your talking about, post questions, not opinions of how you 'think it is'.

If you know what you're taliking about, like cadets or whatever, then fine. But you are way above your experience here, Laddie.

 

[Bert]

<oops. Didn't read pg.3.  Post deleted.>

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A'boi69,

So what's the story on you. In your profile here, your a 14 year old Cadet. In your profile on your own site,

http://www.camouflaged-forumzz.tk/

you claim to be a "Military Reservist". Which is it?

Poser or troll?

Or maybe you just brought too much attention to yourself too soon.

 

[NavyGrunt]

Leaders are supposed to lead by example. Did the Instructors down a pint of milk prior to going into the gas hut? Did they follow thier own advice? I suspect not.

What those 'Leaders' did was total shiite. You don't purposefuly cause harm to your troops just for shits and giggles. By doing this they show a severe lack of respect for their recruits, and the smart ones would see that. Once recruits lose respect for their instructors, it's game over. Those instructors will be fighting an uphill (and losing) battle for respect based on trust from that point on.

What a bunch of amatuers.

Armyboi and anyone else that thinks this is 'cool' or just part of the army fraternity: it's not. Train troops hard, but don't screw them over. What they should have done is made them run their *** off in or right before getting into the hut (the instructors doing the same of course). That is reasonable because troops should be expected to fight and sweat in an NBC environment - they sure as heck shouldn't expect to drink milk. If you want to practice mask clearing drills (ie-if you vomit), fine, but that's not what this was. They lied to you, plain and simple. If you think that's cool, Armyboi, you have a lot to learn.

Actually just thought about this. If they fuck up in the hut and never learn properly how to do their drills it could cost them their lives(and in turn mine) because the instructors were jerking around...hmm maybe the shitting each other should be left to outside class time...

 

[FormerEnlisted]

I can understand why'd you be mad because they "screwed their troops over", but it wasn't anything serious.   It would be one thing to lead your men to the enemy so they can see what simmunition feels like (ouch ), but this was just a little joke against the new guys.

First of all there is not such fine distinction as 'screwing your troops over'. You either teach them what they need to know or you are betraying them. It is one thing to test your troops, by example telling them to do PT on their own time and then skipping it for a while then returning with a vengeance, it is another altogether to order them todo something 'milk' and then watching them puke and barf out on the lawn when you are chortling away in perfect safety. no offense but this is not the Cadets. this is not a f*cking game that you can go out on the weekends and play. sometimes you need a sense of humour or else you cannot survive, but you will only be laughing at yourself and moving on. When NCM's lie to their troops and put them in a potentially dangerous situation then we have a big problem. especially a WO. these guys own your soul when you are on course, nothing or anything is more frightening then getting jacked up by an angry WO. When they betrayed the trust of these Pte.'s they also ruined the relationship between them and their superiors for a very long time. this goes beyond a simple joke. they might hesitate to obey an order one day and that might put my *ss on the line, or my buddy's. I think a RW is in order for these instructors.

 

[Michael OLeary]

QORvanweert, well put.


The purpose of introductory gas training is to demonstrate to the troops that their equipment works, that the issued drills are effective, and to test their ability to carry them out under consistent and controlled conditions. If an instructor changes the conditions of the test in any way that increases the difficulty of the test or the discomfort of failure, then they are failing that soldier, and they are the cause if the soldier fails the masking drill check. This undermines the soldier's confidence in the equipment and the drills, and undermines his faith/trust in his/her superiors. If those superiors aren't dedicating themselves to building and justifying the importance of that trust within command relationships, then they are wasting everyone's time and are failing to produce soldiers who believe in the strength of strong teams, in both lateral and hierarchical senses.

 

[Blindspot]

Some recruits could conceivably watch an instructor pull a pistol and shoot another recruit for being out of step and wouldn't have the sense to know it was murder. I've seen the blind hero worship and it's impossible to talk sense into these people. What's worse is some of them go on to become instructors themselves.

 

[Hansol]

c'mon guys, listen to what shortbus said: "...and give us some tips. The predominant one was, drink lots of milk and it will neutralize the gas, therefore keepig your food down. I didnt believe this for a minute, and decided to just take it as it came...." No where in there was anything mentioned about being ordered to down milk before going into the gas hut. What the warrant did was no different then telling a rookie cow hand to lean up close to the cow when you are tail jacking her (for those who don't know, when you tail jack a cow, you expose her arse hole, and because she is under stress she will shit all over your nice new wranglers because of your close proximity.)

The boys learned their lesson, and no one died or compromised their training because they decided to listen to some questionable "tips" from their WO. Again with the American gas hut, you don't get to eat cake all basic, and then the day of the gas hut suddenly you get all the cake you want? Anyone with half a brain would take that with a grain of salt. Cheers -Cameron

 

[Stefan Moxness]

As someone who is doing their BMQ this coming summer, I haven't been exposed to anything truly military but I know for sure that if my superior, the person to whom I look up for sound advice and judgement, the person who is teaching me how to survive in a given situation gives me stupid advice for whatever reason, be it ignorance on the topic or for shits and giggles I can say that for sure I will lose a certain degree of trust in him and isn't that one of the most important things in the army, that subordinates have faith and trust in their superiors.  I understand that this didnt' put the individuals life at risk this time but couldn't this result in the private later on, not trusting a superior's advice or his order while on tour somewhere and in that case could he not lose his life or cost someone else theirs.  I think that what they did, though perhaps innocent in intent is still ridiculous and should not be tolerate within any fighting force.

 

[rounder]

The boys learned their lesson, and no one died or compromised their training because they decided to listen to some questionable "tips" from their WO.

    Pl 2i/c's DO NOT give questionable advice... They are supposed to give sound advise.

Nice try...