Gas training in CF?

[rounder]

It was up to the soldier to decide whether to follow through on the questionable remark, not the warrant in this case.

It is not up to the soldier to decide. The WO should be aware that his "suggestions" will be taken seriously by his soldiers. Man Hansol you have a lot to learn. I say if this is how you think in three to four years time when you will be eligible for leadership do not go on the course. If I was a soldier and my sect comd did that to me there would definitely be retribution to be had.

 

[dutchie]

You know Hansol, I expected Armyboi to be too thick to get the points Rounder, QORdude, myself and others have given him, but not you.

What will it take for you , a civie, to trust that we, soldiers, know more about what is and what is not acceptable behavior for a military leader? What experience do you have that gives you such special insight that we don't have?

Here is a simplified breakdown of the Course Warrant-Recruit relationship in the Army on any BMQ/SQ/BIQ. This is not theory, this is how it is:

The Warrant is God and knows everything.
The Recruit knows nothing.
Everything God says is law, to be followed without question, no exceptions.

In this case, if the Warrant says that milk counter-acts CS gas, the recruit should be able to bet his life on it.   By violating this, the Warrant is no longer God, he is a vindictive, immature, petty old man, and definately not a leader.

Got it?

 

[FormerEnlisted]

It was up to the soldier to decide whether to follow through on the questionable remark, not the warrant in this case. He never ordered anyone to do anything. the soldier had to decide whether he would blindly drink the milk, or whether he should stop and think and use some common sense.

o m g, this is a uphill battle. 1'st, WO's don't make questionable remarks when they are training people. 2'nd it is not upto the individual soldier to question anything that a WO says. they are Gods. 3'rd you cannot stop and 'think and use common sense' on a battlefield. common sense dictates that you run away and hide in a hole until the war is over, not that you obey orders and clear a trench in the dark.

 

[dutchie]

you cannot stop and 'think and use common sense' on a battlefield. common sense dictates that you run away and hide in a hole until the war is over, not that you obey orders and clear a trench in the dark.

well said.

that's just common sense!

 

[Hansol]

hehehe no worries guys. I am not trying to undermine your experience, or say you are wrong, or anything of the sort. Most likely, when i get into the army, I will learn the hard way how things work, and then come crawling back apologizing and stating how you were right.

In regards to my last post, i was asked why i held the opinion i did, and i answered. I am not saying it is correct, but i was just stating what i based it on.

"What will it take for you , a civie, to trust that we, soldiers, know more about what is and what is not acceptable behavior for a military leader? What experience do you have that gives you such special insight that we don't have?" What you are talking about is the old struggle of "trying to explain a experience." Because I have yet to be in such a experience, there is no way i can comprehend what it is like. All i can base it on is my own experiences, which would be in this case farm work. You listen to the boss, you do what he says. If he suggests something, you can follow through with it, leading to either (A) getting something done easier or (B) getting an ass kicking and learning the hard way how things are done. It is up to you to use your common sense to judge whether it will be A or B. And since i accept responsiblity for my OWN actions, this is why i don't blame the boss, or in the military situation, the warrant.

And thank you for the "Course Warrant-Recruit Relationship Breakdown" I was quite sure this is how it is, and being told by people who have been there validates this even further.

I'm sure i have understood the point you guys are making. But me being that daft civie that i am, im not sure i will be able to agree with it in my current civilian environment. Like i said, as soon as i get into the army, and experience what you have, then i most likely will have a change of heart.

As for rounders comment, again, if you had read my posts, i did say that while I myself do not believe there to be any error of judgement on the part of the warrant, I myself would not pull any stunt like that. There is a time and place for jerking around, and it isn't on course, or the gas hut etc. cheers -Cameron

 

[dutchie]

You're right out of 'er Hansol.

 

[FormerEnlisted]

Hansol, I would seriously advise you to re-consider ever joining the CF. *sighs* for the umpteenth time, no matter how experienced you are from working on your farm, or how many lessons you have learnt, in the army there ARE NOT TWO WAYS TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!! you do what they tell you to do and how they tell you to do it. just wait until you have to label your kit and you will see what I mean, sure it would be alot easier if they gave you a marker and you labeled it as you went through, or if you didn't have to practise packing and unpacking your sleeping bag, or if you didn't have to shave a certain way. it doesn't matter. you do what your instructors say. YOU DO NOT TRY TO IMPROVE ON THE SYSTEM. omg, should I say it again? you do not try to improve on the system. orders are meant to be obeyed to the letter, so if this means you have to sit somewhere for two hours and then run 10k to make a timing then you do it. the army(at least on course, especially bmq) is the most legalistic machine you will ever meet. you cannot win by fighting the system.

 

[Hansol]

wow where did i talk about improving on the system? please quote, cause obviously i am too "out of 'er" to understand your post. Where did i talk about two ways of doing things? I think you guys are misunderstood my point about the "farm experience" banter; it was to try an illistrate the philisophical point of the impossibility of trying to explain an experience to someone who hasn't shared the experience. Its like trying to explain to someone the colour green. It really can't be done.

And no i'm not going to re-evaluate my choice to join the armed forces all because some guys on a internet chat board didnt want to agree with my opinions on whether or not someone should drink milk based on a Warrant Officer of the Canadian Armed Forces "tip" to do so. And don't forget that i also talked to experienced soldiers who didn't have a problem with the gag, so to each his own. Cheers -Cameron    

Edit: My computer is all buggered, so its getting fixed over the weekend. Won't be able to reply to our witty banter until sunday. Cheers boys, and enjoy the weekend. Take it easy on the fire water.

 

[dutchie]

No-one's trying to explain an experience, that would be silly - you couldn't possibly understand any experience I had. What we are trying to tell you is that there are some things that are not acceptable in the military, one of those is abuse of command. Despite your opnion, the CF regards this behavior as abuse of command!

We don't expect you to have personal experience (or training) that confirms why this is wrong, but we do expect you (a budding recruit) to trust what every experienced soldier has told you is true, especially when you have no clue what your talking about. Why ask experienced members of this forum for info/advice, if your just going to turn around and tell us we're wrong?

I do hope you join. I also wish I could be there to see your Section Commanders and Course Warrant lay into you when you use this 'common sense' of yours.

 

[FormerEnlisted]

Hansol- my advice for you to re-consider is only to save you the pain of learning why the CF sold common sense a long long time ago. By all means if you want to join then do so, just believe us when we say that certain things DO NOT fly. This is nothing personal, I am sure you have the potential for a great soldier but the more there is to train-out of you the harder your courses will be...
Cheers Buddy- Daniel

 

[brin11]

Okay, time to agree to disagree all and move on.  I think we all know where everybody stands now on this "milk" issue.

 

[Bushman]

are the effects from CS gas on the respiratory system similar to a high grade grizzly spray?, or is CS a gas that affects both the respiratory system and the nervous system??

also if a newbie has a history of asthma (i don't - just curious), will that exclude them from applying to the CF ??

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

are the effects from CS gas on the respiratory system similar to a high grade grizzly spray?, or is CS a gas that affects both the respiratory system and the nervous system??

also if a newbie has a history of asthma (i don't - just curious), will that exclude them from applying to the CF ??

CS gas only affects the respiratory system (ie, if you breathe some in you'll get a nice burning feeling in your throat) this is mainly because the gas reacts to moisture, so the same thing goes if your neck or hands are sweaty then they'll feel like you've got a nice sunburn, but nothing major.

As fir the asthma question, do a search, as the topic has been discussed a bazillion times.

 

[Bushman]

Thanks fo the info. I finally found the asthma info as well...

 

[Alex252]

Wow Armyboi your little black jokes on your site are about the worst jokes ive ever seen! If you think acting like that will get you in the CF good luck. Anyways, so if your not sweaty the CS gas wont burn?

 

[D-n-A]

Your eyes are always moist, so there burn. I did the gas hut in the summer, so its already hot out, an going into the bunny suit an putting your mask on just makes you warmer an sweat more. Aslong as you do your drills properly, you won't be effected by the gas to much(inhaling it will screw you up for a bit), your feel a bit of burning on your face, but thats it.

 

[axeman]

While its bothersome to go through gas training ,Oh well its part of the training in all colours of the uniform .
you MUST be familiar with the usage and maintance of your kit to be effective.if you are not you are a drain to your comrades who are supposed to support you  and you them if something has happened and they arte not able to mask up . thats the buddy system after your mask is on your suit done up you turn to help your comrades .If youve been slack jawed and do not care to learn this you WILL be a drain on a really precious resource , TRAINED active soldiers , sailor or airmen .  I generally am one not to do the suck it up routine but jeez . just suck it up . while its been a while  for me to practice my drills i still after a run or two would be able to get it to standard in no time . Stop the whining and sniveling . This training is req , do it . :crybaby:

 

[Alex252]

Huh?  Where did I post any Black jokes?
http://www.camouflaged-forumzz.tk/ Under the jokes colum, 101 Black Jokes

 

[Fishbone Jones]

JHC, I went to ARMYboi69's own web site, the one that he administers and owns. Sure enough, there it is in the LMAO forum, posted by himself. That is the most immature posting of racially, inappropriate crap I've seen in a long time. Just when the Cadets seem to be digging themselves out of a hole, along comes a useless waste of skin and steals the shovel and ladder.

ARMYboi69,

It's your site http://www.camouflaged-forumzz.tk/ and I can't do anything about your crass, immature attitude. Suffice to say, you've probably lost any status to speak with anything approaching knowledge on this site. You disgust me.

Alex252,

Thanks for bring that to my (our) attention. It's one less dweeb I have to follow here.

 

[Alex252]

Alex252,

Thanks for bring that to my (our) attention. It's one less dweeb I have to follow here.
Glad to help ;D