General but practical etiquette question

[Meridian]

Since this isn't really something you are trained on (as it is not by the book) and almost impossible to look up, Id love some feedback from serving members:

Things Im semi-basing this question on:

The Jr. Officers Handbook on this site refers to those below certain ranks using first name basis as long as they have paid proper respect first thing in the morning, etc.

In IAP/BOTP we had to salute every time we were not in a formed rank and an officer came into sight, etc.


Anyway here goes:

How does practical every day communication work in your current moc environment? Are your work areas all officially non-saluting zones? Do you all use first names for those equal to your rank? Switch when soemone higher up is around? 

Is there any "official" non-official discourse regulations? I know there are regs for when on parade, etc... but how does it really work day to day?

Do Lt's sit around the office saying "Captain and sir" all day to the Captains in the office?

Have the forces become too comfortable in your estimation, or should it be even more relaxed?

Muchos gracias.

 

[Meridian]

Oh, and from a reserves perspective...  do you use ranks when you run into your MCpl at the Grocery Store?  It would make sense to me, but some have implied that once you are out of the armory or the field (basically non uniformed) you are out of the army....

 

[GIJANE]

Well we don't salute in our building because there are so many officers we'd be walking around with our hand glued to our forhead, and as for first name basis i call most of my friends regardless their rank (except WO and above  ) by first name any one else is by rank, the officers usually go around calling each other by name unless in a formal place like on parade etc etc.

Jane

 

[Horse_Soldier]

The accepted rule for officers when I grew up to be a wee 2Lt many moons ago was that officers could call officers of the same or lower rank by first name in a casual setting, seniors by rank or "sir" (or "ma'am" as the plumbing went).  WO, NCOs and Jr Ranks are to be adressed by rank and name (or in the case of Sergeants-Major as "Sergeant-Major") at all times, as are officers junior in rank in a formal setting.  Accepted saluting practice was to salute an officer senior in rank the first time you encountered him/her during the day inside the building, at all times outside the building or when formally reporting to said officer.  Not wearing your headdress when you work inside helps.  When I worked at NDHQ of cousre, saluting seemed to be non-existant, even outside... but NDHQ ain't the real world - it's just the two-towered squirrel cage on the Rideau.  At the armoury, I get rid of my beret as soon as I can so I don't spend my evening with my hand glued to my brow.

For reservists when in civvies, it all depends.  I'm on a first name basis out of uniform with a few of the NCOs I've known for a long time, but mostly I will address juniors and seniors with the same formality as if we were in uniform.  It just "feels" better for a retread like me.  I don't really care what others do.

What the WO/NCOs/Jr Ranks do among themselves I try to stay away from when it isn't in a formal situation.

 

[Meridian]

Excellent.. thanks for the info Sir, and Jane!


One more quick question...  on a few FTX's at CFSJ we were readily instructed that saluting does not happen in the field, lest we get our leaders shot.  (in some cases this was jokingly encouraged by some Career Corporals, but I digress).

BUt on several occaisions when a Major came around or the LCol visited, saluting was performed by the officers before a handshake was exchanged... 

Is there usually a certain reverence on exercises for CO's who are just visiting or observing in this respect, or is there some sort of official doctrine on this.. or is it just sort of a "do it if it feels right, or if you dont want to get jacked" type of thing.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

Ah, saluting in the field     We used to call it the "sniper check"   ;D   Lemme put it this way, if I'm wearing a helmet or a bush cap and I'm not on a parade square, saluting is out. If the CO walks into the CP/hide/laager/whatever, and you're not in a tactical situation a quick snap to attention with a crisp "sir" suffices.   If you're in tactical, forget snapping to attention.. acknowledge the CO in the most appropriate way, which will often be a whispered greeting.   I suppose that if the CDS came to visit my sqn in the field, I might find it in myself to do a sniper check - but since that's about as likely to happen as me actually becoming CDS, I don't lose sleep over it.

 

[Meridian]

Noted.

 

[pbi]

At my normal job, which is COS of a Res CBG, we do not salute indoors because we do not wear headdress. The exception is a visitor entering the Comd's office who will salute at the threshold. Otherwise, we come to attention at the threshold of a superior's office, come to attention if the Comd enters the room, and use rank title or "Sir" in discussion between varying ranks. I don't like first-name basis between officers and NCOs in the normal military environment, and I make that preference clear to the staff. Within rank groups (ie: junior officers) I am not so worried. When I grew up in battalion, Lts did not salute Capts nor call them "sir" unless the Capt was the Adjt or an OC.   I was a senior NCO and WO myself in the Res and in general my peers and I had little desire to be on a first name basis with officers, except maybe in out-of-uniform social events with one or two junior officers we liked.

When I was commanding a rifle coy, esp on ops in Croatia, I developed a very close relationship with my CSM and in private we called each other by first name. If I ever drop by his house (he's retired now) it is first names. But, we knew the rules of the game "in public"

Socially, if I have any WO/NCO at my house (HQSM, CSM, BRSM, etc) we always use first name basis: my wife thinks it is stupid to be using ranks.  

IMHO Army culture, especially the culture in a RegF Cbt A unit, has developed a certain way for good reasons, just as Navy culture and Air Force culture have in their own ways. They are different, and so they should be IMHO. The problem comes (and yet another folly of Unification, but don't get me going...) when we try to confuse one with the other without thinking. I recall as Adjt having to take our young Air Force MO aside and tell him that it was not "OK" to yell down the length of the Bn HQ corridor to his MA Sgt: "Hey Bob, c'mere for a second, will ya?" Cheers.

 

[Meridian]

Thanks PBI... very insightful!