George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
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Flanker said:
So I have noticed (see post above):
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/am.html
Georgia and the Russian invasions/annexations/Lebensraum (2008 & 2015)
- Thread starter Haggis
- Start date
So I have noticed (see post above):
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Here is another reason why people on this thread must take the SCO or Shanghai Six alliance of which both Russia and China are both members, more seriously.
Because they are a collective threat that is starting to look like the Warsaw Pact of Central Asia.
Because they are a collective threat that is starting to look like the Warsaw Pact of Central Asia.
- Reaction score
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CougarDaddy said:
I don't think the Russians will get what they want.
I think they will get something - they're entitled to some support.
But the Chinese must be peeing their pants with glee right now. Here are two old enemies at each others' throats - distracting (adverse) attention from China. China will want to give Russia some support - just enough to keep the crisis on the front burner, but not enough to do any real good.
- Reaction score
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E.R. Campbell said:I don't think the Russians will get what they want.
I think they will get something - they're entitled to some support.
But the Chinese must be peeing their pants with glee right now. Here are two old enemies at each others' throats - distracting (adverse) attention from China. China will want to give Russia some support - just enough to keep the crisis on the front burner, but not enough to do any real good.
China just announced that they will condemn Russia's actions in Georgia. Perhaps the CCP is not full of hypocrites after all when it comes to respecting other nations' sovereignty. Or maybe Beijing is just worried that Tsibilisi might switch "One China recognition" to Taiwan.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/index.html
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CougarDaddy said:
China has been pretty consistent on the sovereignty/internal affairs issue. By China's traditional standard Georgia was fully within its rights to take whatever action it chose in a so called breakaway province and Russia has done what China most vehemently opposes.
That being said, I don't think it is in China's best interests to totally abandon Russia, yet - there ought to be a way to blame the USA for all this, as Putin is doing.
- Reaction score
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Hmm.
Moscow, Volgograd, Astrakhan, Caspian, Tehran.
And by extension - Petersburg to Bandar Abbas.
River and Sea Route that bypasses Tblisi, Baku, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and, most importantly, Turkmenistan.
Of those countries Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are the most interesting to me. They hold the reserves and are/have been interested in selling their product to the west. The only question is: will they be forced to accept Putin's mail or will they get to sell to Paris via the Baku-Istanbul pipeline (financed by BP which has just be censured in Russia). They also represent the most likely land route between Moscow and Tehran. The Caucasus is shorter by militarily more vulnerable.
The Caspian - now that one is an internal sea wholly owned by Russia and Iran.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5618151/IRAN-FOUR-CARGO-SHIPS-TO.html
Or
http://www.payvand.com/news/07/apr/1024.html
Moscow, Volgograd, Astrakhan, Caspian, Tehran.
And by extension - Petersburg to Bandar Abbas.
River and Sea Route that bypasses Tblisi, Baku, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and, most importantly, Turkmenistan.
Of those countries Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are the most interesting to me. They hold the reserves and are/have been interested in selling their product to the west. The only question is: will they be forced to accept Putin's mail or will they get to sell to Paris via the Baku-Istanbul pipeline (financed by BP which has just be censured in Russia). They also represent the most likely land route between Moscow and Tehran. The Caucasus is shorter by militarily more vulnerable.
The Caspian - now that one is an internal sea wholly owned by Russia and Iran.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5618151/IRAN-FOUR-CARGO-SHIPS-TO.html
Or
http://www.payvand.com/news/07/apr/1024.html
- Reaction score
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E.R. Campbell said:
When I meant hypocrites, I was also only talking about the PRC's continued occupation of Tibet, if one considered Tibet/Xi Zang to have their own country and not be one of the 50 or so zu/族 or ethnicities, other than the Han Zu/漢族, that populate the PRC.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Georgia's wounded troops tell of their surprise when Russia attacked
James Hider in Tbilisi
Major Malkhaz Dumbatze was in a celebratory mood. His 14 Georgian tanks had just taken control of the rebel South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, and he was already looking forward to a trip to Israel to study new battle command systems. The jets flying over the city, where his men were mopping up Ossetian snipers, he took to be Georgian fighters.
Major Dumbatze is still going to Israel, but now it is to have reconstruction surgery on his legs. The aircraft he had spotted were in fact Russian, and one of them dropped two bombs on his armoured unit.
Speaking with difficulty because half his teeth had been blown out by shrapnel that exited through his throat, the battalion commander was undaunted about the future of his crushed army.
“I'm 100 per cent sure we'll recover from this,” he said, his wounded comrades on either side of his bed in a Tbilisi hospital.
Georgia's soldiers, trained by US and Israeli advisers, are gung-ho about returning to the fray, though some unanswered questions still hang in the air - such as the advisability of taking on their giant neighbour without adequate anti-air defences.
Major Dumbatze, 33, denied any knowledge of atrocities committed in Georgia's initial assault on Tskhinvali. His men were hunting down remaining militiamen and had left their armour in the open only because they thought they had won, bringing 17 years of secession to an end. “It was a dream for all Georgian soldiers,” he said. “I didn't expect the Russians. I thought it was politically sealed, the Russian and Georgian Governments made some kind of agreement.”
There was no deal, as he discovered to his cost. As a loyal officer he avoided criticising his Government during the crisis, but admitted that “if you thought the Russians would attack, you'd have to be mad” to launch such an operation. “But we never expected them to attack - if you see the bear coming, you either get under a rock or out of the way.”
Corporal Tristani Chinditze, 20, never even made it as far as the battlefield. His unit was on its way to the front line in lorries and Jeeps when they were ambushed by a much larger Russian force of tanks and infantry.
“Maybe without their planes we could have won. That's why I went - I thought we could win,” he said, just before doctors wheeled him out for an operation to save his legs. Both limbs were shredded by shrapnel from a tank shell. “There were three brigades, plenty of them were wounded. We were in trucks and we had no chance to open fire.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4636590.ece
James Hider in Tbilisi
Major Malkhaz Dumbatze was in a celebratory mood. His 14 Georgian tanks had just taken control of the rebel South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, and he was already looking forward to a trip to Israel to study new battle command systems. The jets flying over the city, where his men were mopping up Ossetian snipers, he took to be Georgian fighters.
Major Dumbatze is still going to Israel, but now it is to have reconstruction surgery on his legs. The aircraft he had spotted were in fact Russian, and one of them dropped two bombs on his armoured unit.
Speaking with difficulty because half his teeth had been blown out by shrapnel that exited through his throat, the battalion commander was undaunted about the future of his crushed army.
“I'm 100 per cent sure we'll recover from this,” he said, his wounded comrades on either side of his bed in a Tbilisi hospital.
Georgia's soldiers, trained by US and Israeli advisers, are gung-ho about returning to the fray, though some unanswered questions still hang in the air - such as the advisability of taking on their giant neighbour without adequate anti-air defences.
Major Dumbatze, 33, denied any knowledge of atrocities committed in Georgia's initial assault on Tskhinvali. His men were hunting down remaining militiamen and had left their armour in the open only because they thought they had won, bringing 17 years of secession to an end. “It was a dream for all Georgian soldiers,” he said. “I didn't expect the Russians. I thought it was politically sealed, the Russian and Georgian Governments made some kind of agreement.”
There was no deal, as he discovered to his cost. As a loyal officer he avoided criticising his Government during the crisis, but admitted that “if you thought the Russians would attack, you'd have to be mad” to launch such an operation. “But we never expected them to attack - if you see the bear coming, you either get under a rock or out of the way.”
Corporal Tristani Chinditze, 20, never even made it as far as the battlefield. His unit was on its way to the front line in lorries and Jeeps when they were ambushed by a much larger Russian force of tanks and infantry.
“Maybe without their planes we could have won. That's why I went - I thought we could win,” he said, just before doctors wheeled him out for an operation to save his legs. Both limbs were shredded by shrapnel from a tank shell. “There were three brigades, plenty of them were wounded. We were in trucks and we had no chance to open fire.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4636590.ece
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
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George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Blackadder1916 said:
Now this is going to open up quite a can of worms on the World Diplomatic Front. What reaction can we see in the UN? Will a UN sponsored set of Observers be sent in to officially take a poll as to what the population really wants? Will Russia simply appropriate the lands and reject any diplomatic maneuvering from outside nations? What reaction politically and militarily will Georgia take? What reaction politically and militarily will the US and Israel take? Will the EU react or remain silent? What relationship changes will we see in NATO/Russian discussions and cooperation? This really has opened up a can of worms.
- Reaction score
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Russia seems to be in the driver's seat in the region, and would probably just tell the UN to STFU and take it. The UN, being the toothless poodle it is, will fold like a cheap tent in a tornado.George Wallace said:
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George Wallace said:
Add the geo-political questions of: who will get to control Poti and Gori? Will the Georgians/US/EU/NATO push back hard against the Russians claimed "buffer zone". If they don't then Georgia is limited to the southern comms route (pipeline) between Tblisi and Batumi?
Is the USN going to enter Poti (currently held by the Russians)? What will be the Russian reaction? That could be an interesting indicator of things to come.
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The birth rate inside Russia is dropping at the rate of 700,000 people a year.Probably one of the few countries in the world that is losing population down to 142m from 149m.The Russian birthrate in the former republics is high and there are 15m living outside Russia proper.This birthrate crisis may be behind Putin's militarism.
