gortex boots

[dw_1984]

Pizza Pizza stopped giving us the time guarentee because you guys kept searching the pizza guy   ;D

you had pizza while i was freezing my butt off?  lucky.

You can probably figure out who this is...sorry couldn't get a beer w/ ya then.

 

[ibucephalus]

Would you rather go back to the old gumby boots ??

When looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the WWB, I don't think we should limit ourselves to a either/ or comparison with the boot system that came before. It would be more valuable to compare the Canadian WWB to other goretex-lined boots available from others companies. This would be an "apples to apples" comparison rather than the "apples to oranges" comparison of the goretex-lined, goodyear-welted WWB to the non-goretex, clued construction of the Mk III.

I think the WWB has some serious weaknesses. As already mentioned, the sole is composed of an extremely hard rubber compound that gives no traction on slick surfaces, including ice, compacted snow, etc. It is important to keep in mind that this compound was deliberately chosen by Clothe The Soldier (CTS) even though its shortcomings were known at the time, because it was expected to be longer lasting than a softer rubber that offered far superior grip. When the boots first came into service, there were numerous complaints. I recall CTS published a response in the Maple Leaf stating something along the lines of, "the reason soldiers are slipping in our boots is that the soldiers are wearing the boots in too-cold weather, and the soldiers are walking too fast". Their advice to soldiers was to, "wear them only in above-freezing temperatures" and, "adjust your gait according to the conditions". I thought this a bit rich, pinning the blame for the boots on the people who wore them.

I think another weakness of the boots is the extreme weight and clunky construction. Goodyear welting, the process of stitching the boot upper to a "welt"(a sort of midsole) and then stitching the sole to the welt is a 140 year-old technology developed for men's dress shoes. Its advantages are that it is a very secure means of attaching the sole, and it allows for multiple resolings of the boot. Its disadvantages are that it is an extremely bulky and heavy means of construction. I've been wearing a pair of goretex lined combat boots for the past 2 years that are made by the Dannish shoe company Ecco. The sole is attached by injection-molding, whereby the upper attached to a light midsole, is placed into a mold and the sole is injected directly onto the upper. This creates a much light boot, with a sole as securely attached as in goodyear welting. The disadvantage is that it is more complicated to resole. My ecco's in a size "effing big", weigh just slightly more than half as much as my WWB's and offer comparable support and are much more comfortable.

I have a few more boot points but I think I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[Armymedic]

mo-litia,

one word for you.. :tank: ..Remuster. :tank:

Back on topic,
ibucephalus brings some good points. One of the issues that CTS it chooses kit is an issue of durability, as in how fast will the kit wear out and need to be replaced.   Boots should last longer then 2 yrs, and ideally 3-4 yrs for the CWW boot as they are only worn part of the yr.

If you haven't seen other posts about the CWW boot, I was one of the pers who did the actual trials. We had 2 pr of boots from Aug-Dec 99 in the trial. The last 2 days before Christmas leave was the third and final stage of the trials we did. At that time, unlike this yr, it had not snowed, and never got much colder then -5 C. We did not have an opportunity to march on cold icy streets. We were allowed to keep our boots, but as good fitting was an issue for most of us, we avoided marking with the trial boots as they cause bad blisters.   When we gathered again in spring for a couple of hrs, where it was presented by a small number of people who did march in the winter with the boots on that the soles were really slippery when walking on ice.

The answer was that the boots were not supposed to be worn for below -10 and that in that situation that mukluks should be worn instead, and that would be a dress issue for the chain of command. While callus as it might seem, they were designing boots for field use, and not concerned about how well they grip the parking lot surface between your office and your car.

For Vibrams on your Mk III's, it'll cost you $60 /pr at Bertrand's shoe repair in Pembroke.

 

[Jarnhamar]

mo-litia, if your worried about slipping on the ice and getting an ouchie then just don't go on winter ex's.  Turning your argument into a reg force reserve why are you such and such a rank is pretty weak.

I've had bad luck with the goretex boots.
I've gone through a few pairs rather quickly.  On two sets the soles started detaching from the boot. On two different boots the heel cracked.  One pair i worked in and had to get exchanged because they loosened up way too much.  Even now I still get blisters from the pair I use. I don't find them very great in long marches at all but I'm still glad I have them. 

For Vibrams on your Mk III's, it'll cost you $60 /pr at Bertrand's shoe repair in Pembroke

I've done this to 3 pairs of combat boots. It's great. I've even seen it done to desert boots and i might get that done as well.  A lot of guys refuse to do this unless the army pays for it. They are dead set against paying for it themselves, but, they will go to the bar and drop $60 on beer. Priorities i guess.

 

[Northern Touch]

I haven't had a problem with my gortex boots just the sock system.  i find my feet sweat with the black (polypro?) sock and then as soon as I stop, freeze.  So im just going to try to wear 2 normal socks instead and see how that works out.

 

[aesop081]

I haven't had a problem with my gortex boots just the sock system.   i find my feet sweat with the black (polypro?) sock and then as soon as I stop, freeze.   So im just going to try to wear 2 normal socks instead and see how that works out.

Thats what i do and it works great.  The new sock system didnt last very long with me.

 

[bossi]

... As already mentioned, the sole is composed of an extremely hard rubber compound that gives no traction on slick surfaces, including ice, compacted snow, etc. It is important to keep in mind that this compound was deliberately chosen by Clothe The Soldier (CTS) even though its shortcomings were known at the time, because it was expected to be longer lasting than a softer rubber that offered far superior grip. When the boots first came into service, there were numerous complaints. I recall CTS published a response in the Maple Leaf stating something along the lines of, "the reason soldiers are slipping in our boots is that the soldiers are wearing the boots in too-cold weather, and the soldiers are walking too fast". Their advice to soldiers was to, "wear them only in above-freezing temperatures" and, "adjust your gait according to the conditions". I thought this a bit rich, pinning the blame for the boots on the people who wore them.

Why does this remind me of the LSVW and the screeching brakes from heck ... ?

 

[foerestedwarrior]

Well, what I was told about them, was that they use steel disk brakes to save money, and they use better ones overseas.

 

[Bomber]

If you want the Vibram, go to the MO and get your feet looked at.  Anyone on class B or Reg force can get this done for free if the MO signs off on it.  I have seen class A guys get it done, but we are talking crazy looking feet, like you could see the problem without them taking off their boots.  Make sure that you do this to fairly new boots as well, cause if your boots die in 6 months, you will have to redo the soling on the new ones.  I just got back two pairs from the cobbler and they feel really good.  I got told by a clothing stores guy that the Vibram chit only lasts for two years, this guy must have been a doctor to dispense this gem, I guess your feet get better with age and use.  Do the MO gave me a new chit, and made notes on what my feet are looking like now.  Make sure that if there is something wrong with your feet, knees, or back, that the MO knows so that it can be monitored.  This will come in handy in 10 or 15 years and you can only march if you have custom orthotics and vibram soled gucci super boots.  The Army often picks up the tab if they caused the damage, (proved through your medical history).  My only wish now is that they could put the old Vibram sole from the old school gore-tex prospectors on the MK3's, those stick like glue to ice, as I had to wear them while my other boots were in getting repaired.  Last, when you put on those current gore-tex boots in -15 weather, remember that they are actually designated WWB, not Cold WWB.

 

[aesop081]

Well, what I was told about them, was that they use stell disk brakes to save money, and they use better ones overseas.

I went to Kosovo with an LSVW and it was the same brakes we have back home !!  My only comfort is that the Italians have them too and the make the same sound !!!

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

The wind on Ex CRIMSON TIDE was a nuisance - I swear the East side of the Armoury was a wind tunnel.  

Haha, you should have seen the mod tent that some of the infantry guys (I think the 48th?) were setting up next to our CP. One gust of wind and the entire tent goes flying, almost hit the parking lot.

 

[Gryphon]

Why does this remind me of the LSVW and the screeching brakes from heck ... ?

ww those breaks really do suck... love the tacticalness tho  :