Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[ytz]

No-one should. That's the point: conscripting people for low-value work (as in: what would people pay to have it done) is pretty close to indentured labour on the autonomy-slavery spectrum.

Somebody should explain this to all those fantasizing about drafting our kids for low cost servitude err "national service".

Like I said earlier, these elites will do anything but actually pay military personnel more.

 

[ytz]

its all women's fault.

You must not have daughters or sisters.

It didn't take long before the basic dream of an 1100 sq. ft. bungalow or storey and one half gave way to larger dreams.

To young people today, 1100 sqft with a backyard is a dream. These days, even condos are well under a thousand square feet.

You should probably getting your idea of how people live from Instagram reels.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You must not have daughters or sisters.

I thought it a facetious response: what was "women's fault" was being asked to work during wartime and then taking advantage of wartime and postwar opportunities to be more than housewives.

 

[Kirkhill]

No-one should. That's the point: conscripting people for low-value work (as in: what would people pay to have it done) is pretty close to indentured labour on the autonomy-slavery spectrum.

Most armies with conscription use the conscription period (usually less than a year) as a training period. The kids add a year to their schooling and are kept off the market for a year, just as they are when they go to post-secondary education, and thus reduce competition for the available work. The exercise reduces the unemployment numbers.

The conscripts don't actually do any work unless and until there is an emergency. And in the Euro case the expectation is that the conscripts will be lining up looking for rifles while dodging bullets.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Somebody should explain this to all those fantasizing about drafting our kids for low cost servitude err "national service".

Like I said earlier, these elites will do anything but actually pay military personnel more.

We get you don't like the idea, in Canada's case, even if we did have it, likley there would be a lottery and if your in the target age, then the possibility exists you get drafted. Funny how other economies and countries have managed to survive having their youth drafted.

 

[ytz]

Can we actually discuss actually making the CAF more attractive instead of wasting more time on this ridiculous conscription fantasy that the majority of Canadian voters would (rightly) turn down?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Most armies with conscription use the conscription period (usually less than a year) as a training period. The kids add a year to their schooling and are kept off the market for a year, just as they are when they go to post-secondary education, and thus reduce competition for the available work. The exercise reduces the unemployment numbers.

The point is that conscription removes a period of chosen adult life - education, work, goofing off seeing the world before taking on adult responsibilities which will make it harder later on - and substitutes something else which often amounts to pointless busywork and might displace other workers. Removing that choice is vile.

If there are jobs to be done, post them and let people compete for them freely instead of trying to hide oppressive authoritarian policies under a false mantle of character/citizen/nation building. I don't care how beautiful the blanket is; there's nothing under it but sh!t.

 

[FJAG]

Can we actually discuss actually making the CAF more attractive instead of wasting more time on this ridiculous conscription fantasy that the majority of Canadian voters would (rightly) turn down?

I wish you all would.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Funny how other economies and countries have managed to survive having their youth drafted.

Probably because the youth are the ones f*cked over, not the "economies" or "countries". (Although substituting lower paid forced labour for labour freely priced does f*ck the economy a little.)

 

[ytz]

We get you don't like the idea, in Canada's case, even if we did have it, likley there would be a lottery and if your in the target age, then the possibility exists you get drafted. Funny how other economies and countries have managed to survive having their youth drafted.

1) Quite often they are even lower than us on GDP/capita. So not impact free as you assert. And literally cheaper.

2) Face immediate and proximate threats. Like having Russia next door. That makes even their young people more supportive. Unless we're explicitly training to take on the US, this would be a hard sell in Canada.

3) Usually have qualification systems that are lower than here. No need to do a BA to get entry level clerical work. And their undergrad degrees can often be completed in 3 years with much longer (9-10 month) school years.

4) They subsidize education and sometimes even housing for young people. There's a well understood implied social bargain for giving up that time. Something most of the proponents in our discussion here refuse to entertain.

5) They usually don't usually use lotteries. Everybody serves. So those who do aren't substantially disadvantaged relative to peers.

6) Their militaires are designed from the top to bottom to be conscript forces. They are daydreaming this stuff as a way to get a few more brigades worth of troops. They design their forces to bring a massive amount of capability in short order to fight an actually invading army. Not to generate spare brigades to deploy thousands of miles away.

I welcome anybody who thinks this is serious idea to talk to their favourite political party and get it into their platform. The British Conservatives tried this. See how that went for them.

 

[Kirkhill]

The point is that conscription removes a period of chosen adult life - education, work, goofing off seeing the world before taking on adult responsibilities which will make it harder later on - and substitutes something else which often amounts to pointless busywork and might displace other workers. Removing that choice is vile.

If there are jobs to be done, post them and let people compete for them freely instead of trying to hide oppressive authoritarian policies under a false mantle of character/citizen/nation building. I don't care how beautiful the blanket is; there's nothing under it but sh!t.

You are of the same opinion about state-sponsored education? Because arguably education beyond Grade 10 started as a make work project.

 

[ytz]

You are of the same opinion about state-sponsored education? Because arguably education beyond Grade 10 started as a make work project.

What it started as and what it is today is very different. 11-12 years of combined primary/secondary is pretty much the goal norm these days.

 

[lenaitch]

- You asked.

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View attachment 92115

Dang. I knew I should have thought of another example; I had read about that project.

 

[lenaitch]

Long article - Short form, Trump's 2x4 has got results.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-21/canada-rushes-to-fund-its-neglected-military-after-trump-threats?embedded-checkout=true

https://archive.ph/k9jsX

Not a fan. Not a fan of any 'earmarked' tax scheme, if for no other reason that it can drive politically-based policy decisions into the courts ('I don't have kids so why should I pay educational taxes') and pacifists would argue they should be exempt.

Besides, Trump won't care.

 

[YZT580]

You must not have daughters or sisters.



To young people today, 1100 sqft with a backyard is a dream. These days, even condos are well under a thousand square feet.

You should probably getting your idea of how people live from Instagram reels.

never watch Instagram, in fact I don't go to restaurants and spend the meal looking at my cellphone either. I get my ideas from how people live by actually having conversations with them face to face. Try it some time. The loss of the dream is a direct result of the rampant consumerism that arose and that Trudeau represented. Spend and spend some more. The budget will balance itself. You want a SeaDoo? Buy one. Maxed out credit card; get another one. Every time people reach their credit limit some bank extends it some more. Houses don't need marble countertops and 3 bathrooms but try finding one without the bells and whistles that has been built in the last 20 years. No one wanted one so they didn't build them. So the prices went up. The kids today may not be able to find a place to live but that is partially due to their parents greed and their own unrealistic expectations. I lived in a 75 dollar basement room with a hotplate for 3 years and so did most of my generation. I worked summer jobs to pay tuition and again, that was the common thing to do. My neighbours used to employ 20 to 30 students a summer during harvest time for fruits. Now they bring in another dozen Jamaicans because the students won't work. I and many others here know far more about the world around us and what the root causes are than you may think

 

[Kirkhill]

@ytz

This will be a contentious question.

Do you see yourself as a defender of your Canada or as an employee hired to defend my Canada?

There is a valid historical basis for that question.

When the Brits stopped defending themselves (they had become reliant on the Romans) they got the Danes.
The Turks and Arabs got the Mamluks.
The Byzantines got the Varangians.

....

Related question

Are you opposed to volunteers volunteering their unpaid services because they feel it is the right thing to do?

 

[MilEME09]

If we want to make the CAF attractive the question becomes who do we want to keep and who are we okay with only staying a couple years. How do we make our selves a more attractive career option till retirement?

 

[Brad Sallows]

You are of the same opinion about state-sponsored education? Because arguably education beyond Grade 10 started as a make work project.

No. Maybe dropping out after 10 should be an option again, although it might be right up there with allowing 15-year-olds to decide whether to sell a kidney.

 

[ytz]

Do you see yourself as a defender of your Canada or as an employee hired to defend my Canada?

The former. It's why I signed up. And why I stayed beyond obligatory service, even when I could make more in the private sector.

Are you opposed to volunteers volunteering their unpaid services because they feel it is the right thing to do?

I'm opposed to dumb and impractical ideas from people that have either:

1) Never served.
2) Don't understand modern warfare.
3) Have North Korea'esque fantasies of societal mobilization that would destroy the very nature of Canada.

Let's go over why proponents say they want this.

1) Defence of Canada. Unless the training is exclusively on how to fight the US, nobody is really going to buy the argument that Conscription is about defending Canada. One can argue that it's about creating the force needed to promote our national interests. But that is not close to "defending Canada" enough to justify forced mobilization. Especially in a world where we aren't worried about all of Europe falling (as we were in WWII) given ya know, nukes.

2) National unity. Should be obvious but national unity can be achieved in ways without military service. Literally any scheme which mixes social and economic classes from different regions together for a few weeks to months under stress will achieve that effect. The same could be achieved with a Civil Defence Corps that does disaster relief and responds to emergencies, National Service Corps that works in disadvantaged areas with healthcare and education, National Environmental Corps that works on environmental remediation. Hell, have enough national sports camps and you'd get the same effect and reduce obesity in society. But none of this is being put forward. Only daydreams by elites and Internet generals on how they can staff up brigades for Europe.

When the Brits stopped defending themselves (they had become reliant on the Romans) they got the Danes.
The Turks and Arabs got the Mamluks.
The Byzantines got the Varangians.

I shouldn't have to state the obvious. But we have no equivalent to any threat those powers faced. Except the US. But conscription proponents aren't talking about training for that fight.

My question to you. Do you care about the well-being of Canadians or just about fulfilling your fantasy of counting brigades?

 

[ytz]

If we want to make the CAF attractive the question becomes who do we want to keep and who are we okay with only staying a couple years. How do we make our selves a more attractive career option till retirement?

I honestly wouldn't mind something like the American "up or out" albeit with competition dialed down a bit (we don't have the size to be as competitive as their system). But the cost to do something like this would be nuts.

The craziest system I heard of was from the Dutch. They compete for each posting. And if nobody picks you up at the end of the posting season? You're released.