Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Almost all the army events and activities that could be seen as non operational have been cancelled almost permanently too. CAFSAC, Worthington Cup, Patrol Competition.

Interestingly items that have a nexus to support recruiting or retention are supposed to be considered for continued support but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I can’t help but wonder if pulling out of stuff like the Halifax Tattoo and canceling CAFSAC are actually going to be detrimental to recruiting and retention over the longer term.

CAFSAC wouldn't be the same, especially with the GOAT in purgatory:

Air Force major charged in firearms bust in Kingston, Petawawa

The Canada Border Services Agency conducted a large-scale seizure of trafficked weapons in Kington and Petawawa, Ont. which has led to multiple criminal charges.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

It would be like the UFC without Jon Jones

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I wonder if anyone has suggested undercoating the ships ? Or maybe some Gorilla Glue or Flex Seal ?

My buddy and I wrapped a 100' sunken sailing vessel in plastic wrap using staplers to seal up the hull so we could pump it out. So I am available for hire if you need it.....

 

[Haggis]

Almost all the army events and activities that could be seen as non operational have been cancelled almost permanently too. CAFSAC, Worthington Cup, Patrol Competition.

Interestingly items that have a nexus to support recruiting or retention are supposed to be considered for continued support but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I can’t help but wonder if pulling out of stuff like the Halifax Tattoo and canceling CAFSAC are actually going to be detrimental to recruiting and retention over the longer term.

CAFSAC, Worthington Cup and Cambrian Patrol (if that what you meant by "patrol competition") are inwards focused and should not affect recruiting. Retention, maybe.

 

[Stoker]

Almost all the army events and activities that could be seen as non operational have been cancelled almost permanently too. CAFSAC, Worthington Cup, Patrol Competition.

Interestingly items that have a nexus to support recruiting or retention are supposed to be considered for continued support but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I can’t help but wonder if pulling out of stuff like the Halifax Tattoo and canceling CAFSAC are actually going to be detrimental to recruiting and retention over the longer term.

I would rather see the Oriole shit canned rather than cancel the Tattoo.

 

[dapaterson]

I would rather see the Oriole shit canned rather than cancel the Tattoo.

That's no way to talk about the ready duty ship.

 

[dapaterson]

Not just SWE spent to keep the bureaucracy grinding; lots of Reg F pay in Ottawa for positions with no clear military nexus.

That an occupation could create a sub-occupation for "folks who will only ever work staff jobs" suggests that there's a lot of waste in the Reg F pay envelope as well.

 

[MilEME09]

CAF getting Spike LR2 ATGM's as UOR, Griffons, chinooks, and radar going to latvia, oh my

Minister Blair announces measures to strengthen Canada’s military presence in Latvia - Canada.ca

Today, the Honourable Bill Blair, Minister of National Defence, accompanied by General Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff, are visiting Latvia – home to Canada’s largest foreign military deployment

www.canada.ca

 

[Maxman1]

You shilling for Amy Schumer now? A very unfunny woman!!

 

[McG]

CAFSAC, Worthington Cup and Cambrian Patrol (if that what you meant by "patrol competition") are inwards focused and should not affect recruiting. Retention, maybe.

The Canadian Patrol Competition was a CMTC initiative to keep its staff busy in the fall and flex in an area for which the Infantry School was the actual CoE.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ah yes, I remember now (ouch)

View attachment 81835

The history of the Brits

How Brits went soft on toilet paper

Twentieth-century studies reveal a whole host of anxieties about the terrors of soft toilet paper.

wellcomecollection.org

In London, Birmingham and Manchester, women and young couples were making the move to soft paper. Men were more accustomed to “rubbing or scraping” and would need to be trained to use soft paper without dirtying their hands.

In Glasgow, the psychologists said, many people still used newspaper. In Yorkshire, “‘soft’ papers were viewed with great distrust and anxiety because they were not ‘reliable’”. Any new paper would have to be marketed as strong and good value for money to win over these customers. And people were reluctant to change their bathroom fittings, so free roll-holders might be a good incentive to change

Hech mon! Pay for it?

 

[markppcli]

The Canadian Patrol Competition was a CMTC initiative to keep its staff busy in the fall and flex in an area for which the Infantry School was the actual CoE.

And it was a nice way of keeping people from flying to the UK to stroke their ego, I mean compete in the Cambrian.

 

[suffolkowner]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1736414497718305228

while we dither serious countries continue to improve their militaries

 

[FJAG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1736414497718305228

while we dither serious countries continue to improve their militaries

Not a supporter of the Liberals, but in fairness they've recently gotten the military RPAS/JUSTAS, the F-35, new frigates, CC-330s and P8s. That's actually not bad when you think about relevant kit being purchased.

I tend to think that perhaps the problems that the army is having is that it hasn't gotten their own house in order and other than GBAD and a bunch of UORs needs to really figure out what it needs to be to stay relevant in the eyes of government. The Latvia mission seems like a good stepping stone if it plays its cards right.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The problem is that that since its inception, REASSURANCE, was touted as a training/NATO confidence mission.

I was there in 2015 for Roto 3 in Poland. We had nothing. Not a capability of note but an AB Coy Gp training with the Polish and showing the flag in the Baltics at different training events. We had to fight for SDA designation (which only happened at R4 and onward) because "Well its just exercising... no different than Gagetown". There is a reason why we called it "Operacise REASSURANCE" while there; its exercising when we needed kit or support, but an operation when NATO was asking for a contribution.

That was the mentality that came into view when we moved to Latvia. Its a training mission, those are cheap (like ATTENTION being far cheaper than ATHENA/ARCHER in blood and treasure). We dont need kit, or vehicles, or pers, or ..... its just a training mission.

24 Feb 2022 changed that mission for NATO, but not Canada. We are treating it as a continual BALTIC RESOLVE and staffing/equipping it the same way. No one in the GoC believes that theatee will ever go hot and are banking on it.

 

[Fabius]

No one in the GoC believes that theatee will ever go hot and are banking on it.

At an institutional level neither does the Army.

 

[suffolkowner]

Not a supporter of the Liberals, but in fairness they've recently gotten the military RPAS/JUSTAS, the F-35, new frigates, CC-330s and P8s. That's actually not bad when you think about relevant kit being purchased.

I tend to think that perhaps the problems that the army is having is that it hasn't gotten their own house in order and other than GBAD and a bunch of UORs needs to really figure out what it needs to be to stay relevant in the eyes of government. The Latvia mission seems like a good stepping stone if it plays its cards right.

yeah were on a bit of a run. I guess it happens when you decide to only buy equipment every 40 yrs. Wait does that mean that the Trudeaus are THE defence Prime Ministers?

The LSVW and HSVW should be decided in the next year as well

 

[YZT580]

Not a supporter of the Liberals, but in fairness they've recently gotten the military RPAS/JUSTAS, the F-35, new frigates, CC-330s and P8s. That's actually not bad when you think about relevant kit being purchased.

I tend to think that perhaps the problems that the army is having is that it hasn't gotten their own house in order and other than GBAD and a bunch of UORs needs to really figure out what it needs to be to stay relevant in the eyes of government. The Latvia mission seems like a good stepping stone if it plays its cards right.

true but in what way have they ensured that the equipment is there to do the job? Our donations to Ukraine have demonstrated how bare the cupboards are: we just don't have anything worth giving. The 330's are only 20 years overdue, the F35 should have been ordered a decade ago and yes I know Harper was in then but his single source order got shot down so we have no planes, the frigates are only as a result of the NSS programme otherwise they would still be on the wish list and the P8's come after some serious govt to govt lecturing. So what really have they initiated to see that we can defend ourselves

 

[daftandbarmy]

true but in what way have they ensured that the equipment is there to do the job? Our donations to Ukraine have demonstrated how bare the cupboards are: we just don't have anything worth giving. The 330's are only 20 years overdue, the F35 should have been ordered a decade ago and yes I know Harper was in then but his single source order got shot down so we have no planes, the frigates are only as a result of the NSS programme otherwise they would still be on the wish list and the P8's come after some serious govt to govt lecturing. So what really have they initiated to see that we can defend ourselves

Luckily, we still issue bayonets

 

[markppcli]

View attachment 81861



Getting kit is easy, you just write a cheque to a defense contractor. Missing is the more important and much harder part - retention and recruting.

We all know that’s not true. Our procurement system is a mess.

Retention is a problematic issue, but I can tell you from personal experience that no one likes going to Latvia and looking like a third rate army.

 

[MilEME09]

We all know that’s not true. Our procurement system is a mess.

Retention is a problematic issue, but I can tell you from personal experience that no one likes going to Latvia and looking like a third rate army.

And sadly our allies already think we are a joke. According to a friend who was over with 2VP this past year, our allies didn't have nice things to say, and our own troops nearly got them selves killed multiple times from safety violations. Long story short our reputation has been harmed.