Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]

[speedbird]

I'm rarely on here so I never seem to reply to these in time.

I have nothing but amazing things to say about the MA War Studies.
I was part of a great year (2006) with a great group of academics.  That said, the experience varies widely depending on the folks in your year (if you are doing class work in Kingston).
As then Principal John Scott Cowan said on my first day, you get what you put into it.  I sought out TAships at Queen's, impressed my classmates and my past two jobs (Faculty at RMC/CDA HQ and military procurement policy at PWGSC) were directly caused by people I met in the program.  Like I said, we had a great year and there was a perfect mix of senior public servants, military members (usually Maj/LCdr) and young folks out of their undergrad.

That said, there are little to no jobs post MA in "international security" in the next five years or so until a major demographic shift happens.  And the situation is not much brighter for teaching jobs should you choose to pursue a PhD (which the MA also sets you up well for). One note though, big military history focus with the faculty that are there right now, though Jane Boulden is a prominent scholar in IR.
To be honest, the best place to work in the field of international security would be to join the CF, do your thing for a while in courses and trades and end up a Staff Officer providing strategic advice at SJS or something.  A long term plan, but I can name dozens of MAs from schools across Canada that are wishing they could get into the field.

 

[macknightcr]

This thread seems to be one people want to look at, but no one has any answers for....which is pretty disappointing.  I will try another question that may get some feedback.  Does any one know if it is possible to take an "academic leave of absence" in order to complete a Masters Degree?  This would imply that I would pay for school myself, and then return to service to complete my contract.

 

[jwtg]

Look into the 'PG On Schol' program. A few people out of RMC get into it every year. They get commissioned and then do their Masters .

 

[Alex.Landry]

My father did his Master's while serving.

He was given a year to do so and I remember him being at home all the time and just having to report in to work like once a week.

I hope this helps a little bit! It seems plausible!

 

[macknightcr]

Thank you.  I will look in to that program.

 

[Alex.Landry]

Good luck on Cmdt's Inspection!

 

[Cui]

Thank you speedbird for such a detailed reply. I was looking into graduate programs as well since I will be entering my third year at Waterloo.

Though I was wondering if you know anything about the Masters of Public Administration program at RMC.

I am looking into the MPA and the MA in War Studies program at RMC, so any firsthand experiences is greatly appreciated.

Thanks 

 

[PAdm]

I completed the MA in Defence Management and Policy at RMC (now called the MPA). I did all distance and thought the program was amazing (notwithstanding the pain of doing it on my own time part time). I was very pleasd with the program, profs, and course mates. When I completed this diverse and very interesting program, I felt that it should be called an MPA and am not surprised that it has been renamed.

There are fundamental core courses plus enough electives to choose from to keep you interested. It is also the degree offender to the national Securities Course at CFC Toronto so what is good for baby generals is good for you.

In my opinion war studies is good for general interest or a true history buff. It will not get you a job per se. MPA is known and ack as a bonified field of studies. As a general statement, I would do the MPA to enhance both your knowledge to better function in the CF and your resume.  :2c:

 

[Cui]

I completed the MA in Defence Management and Policy at RMC (now called the MPA). I did all distance and thought the program was amazing (notwithstanding the pain of doing it on my own time part time). I was very pleasd with the program, profs, and course mates. When I completed this diverse and very interesting program, I felt that it should be called an MPA and am not surprised that it has been renamed.

There are fundamental core courses plus enough electives to choose from to keep you interested. It is also the degree offender to the national Securities Course at CFC Toronto so what is good for baby generals is good for you.

In my opinion war studies is good for general interest or a true history buff. It will not get you a job per se. MPA is known and ack as a bonified field of studies. As a general statement, I would do the MPA to enhance both your knowledge to better function in the CF and your resume.  :2c:

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind

 

[daftandbarmy]

I would suggest that if you are smart enough to do an MBA (unlike me), do it. Avoid the other 'Ms in Something Odd' at all costs, or you will be pigeon holed into looking for jobs in the public service or non-profit sector for the rest of your life.

The MBA is recognized and respected around the world, in  all workplaces including those in the public sector, whereas other nouveau 'M' quals are not.

Just sayin' 'cause I, and a lot of my clients, turn down lots of non-MBAs all the time. :nod:

 

[dimsum]

Slightly off-topic, but building on what Daft said:

I understand the "new" Aerospace Systems Course now can include an optional MPA component.  Most everyone understands what an MBA is and what you can do with it, but what (generally) does one do with an MPA? 

I'm interested in ASC and the MPA portion anyway, just wanted to know if there's anything beneficial "on the outside" by doing it.

 

[Cui]

From what I understand, MBA is more about running a business. You learn things like management, organizational behaviour, economics, human resources management, accounting, etc.

An MPA is more about public policy, geared more towards somebody who wants a job in the public sector. You might cover some of the same topics, but it just has a different focus.

I think that when applied to the context of the CF, MPA would focus on what direction the CF will be going, and MBA would be more "how will the CF get there".

While I understand that MBA does include planning and the MPA does include implementation, that is the way I see if so far. Please feel free to correct me if I'm way off base on this.

 

[PAdm]

Interesting thread. It clearly underlines that there are a variety of masters programs out there. The question becomes to what end do you wish to use your masters??  Me?  I always wanted a masters, in an area that interested me, and from RMC. So the MA (DMP) from RMC was perfect. I have no desires for a career post CF.  But everyone is different. Suggest you reflect, look at options and continue to ask for opinions just like you are doing now.

 

[dapaterson]

I would suggest that if you are smart enough to do an MBA (unlike me), do it. Avoid the other 'Ms in Something Odd' at all costs, or you will be pigeon holed into looking for jobs in the public service or non-profit sector for the rest of your life.

The MBA is recognized and respected around the world, in  all workplaces including those in the public sector, whereas other nouveau 'M' quals are not.

Just sayin' 'cause I, and a lot of my clients, turn down lots of non-MBAs all the time. :nod:

Government needs fewer MBAs.

You have to understand the business - and MBAs do not learn to understand government or its processes.  So you end up with "expert" advice that is unusable because there was no effort made to understand the environment in which the solution must operate.

Are there skills learned in an MBA that are transferable to the public sector?  Yes.  But an MPA, overall, is a better program for public sector work.

(RMC has an MBA only because the Log Branch want to give their people credentials for retirement - the DND/CF requirement is for an MPA.)

 

[54/102 CEF]

If you look at any list of top guys and gals running big business - probably half never went to higher education and got started making their way to the top out of highschool

Of the remainder - they come from as many fields of study as you care to imagine

Many people run down the MA in War Studies as some namby pamby field of snoring in the library - I call it a destabilse and destroy a country course

As the War in War Studies says - War comes from many directions and leads off in many directions - imagine walking across a parade square covered in black powder fuses - they are the myriad causes of war - now some fool is throwing flaming arrows into the middle and a fuze goes off - but you chase the fuze in your clicker heel infantry boots and you set off more fuses - pretty soon thats quite a lot of smoke and scary endings coming up as you the diplomat try and avoid any commitment --- at the end of the course you realise what a thankless job the Infantry has as DND leadership is at the beck and call of witless politicians

So to conclude - I am not an Engineer - but when War Studies comes to life in the field - we employ a lot of engineers and ticket punching MPAs and the greatest infrastructure builders in their own minds

Just sayin'

Signed

War Studies 2007 - ask the DS for a copy of the Michael Roy Team attack on the Toronto Joint Health and Police HQ final project

Still interested? MA in War Studies won't disappoint and it will enhance your CV.

 

[Cui]

Well, I would like to make a career out of the Canadian Forces. I was in cadets when I was in high school and like the culture, and the more I learned about the CF, the more it appealed to me.

Right now the best case scenario for me would be to be able to join the CF as an officer after I get my master's degree and serve until I retire. However, things might not always work out, so I would like to study something that is transferable to the civilian side of things as well. Therefore, I'm leaning more towards the MPA side of things right now. As well I've always been interested in a variety of topics in the social sciences, and the interdisciplinary nature of the MPA suits that.

In addition, attending RMC has been a dream of mine since I was 13. Unfortunately I was unable to get into ROTP program for my undergrad. I think I can still realize that dream by doing my master's degree there.

With 2 years left on my undergraduate, I still have some time to think things over. Thank you all for giving such great advice and I certainly will keep them in mind. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

Some discussions on the differences FYI:

I don't agree with this one... must have been written by a policy geek in a think tank somewhere  ;D
http://www.publicservicecareers.org/index.asp?pageid=663
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091119201932AAdhQN6

Get both:
http://www.stern.nyu.edu/programs-admissions/dual-degrees/mba-mpa/
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/academic-experience/joint-degree-programs/Pages/harvard-kennedy-school.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHj8kicKr5U

 

[speedbird]

As I say, I'm rarely on here but the difference between an MPA and an MA.
MPA will not cut it if you are planning to further your career in academia, it is applied and will teach you how to write BNs and understand the structures of Gov't, most of which you could learn in a CSPS course called "How Ottawa Works" if you join the department.
I went with the MA because I was planning on doing a PhD, was talked out of it, still managed to get hired as faculty at CDA HQ and am now a public servant with another department.
Just depends on what your goals are. Also if you are a career officer, you will likely get some sort of MPA at some point or another through CFC.

Also, 54/102 CEF it is likely inevitable that we know each other unless you weren't in Kingston.

 

[Wolseleydog]

Just a bit on "a day in the life of" an RMC grad student (as opposed to the utility of the degree):

Full disclosure: I did it back in the mid90s, as a RegF offr.

The OP suggested a desire to go to RMC as a cadet.  Just to be clear -- grad students at RMC are not/not members of the cadet wing, and do not go through any of that sort of thing, although they may interact tangentially with the cadets through activities like sports/clubs/social events.  This is not unlike, I suppose, the relationship between undergrads and grad students at civilian universities generally.

Grad students at RMC fall into three general groups: RegF officers (many of whom are ex-cadets, but many of whom are not), reserve officers, and civilians.  When I was there (War Studies 95-96) there were four of us RegF, and (the following are estimates from memory) about two dozen reserve officers (actually, two were CIL) and perhaps ten civilians.  The RegF officers were all majors/captains, who had managed to convince the system to send us for post grad.  We ranged in age from late twenties to (I would say) mid/late thirties.  The reservists and civilians were all more stereotypical students -- early/mid twenties, straight from civilian university undergrads.

Daily life was similar to grad students everywhere: a low cost apartment somewhere in Kingston (although one of the RegF majors lived in the then PMQs that are now the CDA headquarters bldg).  Several grad seminar classes a week to attend, a grad student lounge to hang out in, working in the library. RegF officers wore uniform to class.  Civilians obviously wore civilian clothes.  Reservists, honestly I can't remember.

Having also been a grad student at a civilian university, I would suggest that overall the grad student experience at RMC is very like civilian university generally, which is very much *NOT* the case with the comparison between the RMC undergrad experience and civilian university.

Just my two cents worth.  (And I have to add, for my penance for grad school I had to go to NDHQ which took me four years to escape...)

 

[Chelomo]

One of my teacher did his MA in War Studies at Kingston, and since I was looking into grad school options in that field, told me that it wasn't what it used to be. What he meant by that, I didn't probe much further to find out, but it's something to be aware of. Of course, he's a research professor, so he might have been talking from a research/post-grad possibilities.

After reading up on the subject however, I am distinctly interested in a MA in War Studies at King's College in London (UK). Apparently they are one of the best grad schools when it comes to that particular topic, and you can do it in one year (Fall, Winter, Summer). The price is pretty steep however, so that's another thing to take into consideration, as the cost of living in the UK is pretty punitive.