Gun Control: US and Global II

[mariomike]

Thank you mariomike. My concern is mostly on being quoted on a different thread.

We aim to please, Donald. 

 

[garb811]

Thank you mariomike. My concern is mostly on being quoted on a different thread.

I'm not sure what your concern is; once you post to the board it is public and liable to be quoted by someone in a different thread if they feel the conversation is better suited for that thread.  Additionally, the DS will also split threads and move parts of that conversation to a more appropriate thread where warranted to keep things clear and on track and head off derails.  It's a lot easier for us to step in early as opposed to waiting until a thread is pages long to try and sort out a derail.

If you haven't noticed, the quote you are concerned about has been split off into a different thread altogether just due to the way the conversation evolved away from a conversation about US gun laws overall and into conversation focusing on the events and the legalities of that specific incident.

- Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Donald H]

I'm not sure what your concern is; once you post to the board it is public and liable to be quoted by someone in a different thread if they feel the conversation is better suited for that thread.  Additionally, the DS will also split threads and move parts of that conversation to a more appropriate thread where warranted to keep things clear and on track and head off derails.  It's a lot easier for us to step in early as opposed to waiting until a thread is pages long to try and sort out a derail.

If you haven't noticed, the quote you are concerned about has been split off into a different thread altogether just due to the way the conversation evolved away from a conversation about US gun laws overall and into conversation focusing on the events and the legalities of that specific incident.

- Milnet.ca Staff

Thank you for your explanation! And I'll use this opportunity to say that I find the administration and moderating of this forum to be exceptionally well done!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The numbers are very telling. The NSSF is likley the best source for who is buying firearms as the traditional polling methods are more or less useless. who in their right mind would tell a stranger on a phone what your gun buying habits are?

12.1 million background checks
According to Mark Oliva, Director of Public Affairs at the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), more than 12.1 million background checks for new firearm sales have been conducted nationally since the beginning of the year. NSSF data show that 40 percent of people purchasing firearms are first-timers. “And of those first-time buyers, 58 percent are African American and 40 percent are women,” Oliva said in an interview with the Rappahannock News.


https://www.rappnews.com/news/business/like-milk-and-bread-in-a-snowstorm/article_fa5254f4-ea1a-11ea-aee9-0f8b031d33d9.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR06pYxnN49g6qrfD6KzmJ_qNujPumcKp3c74Y44DnxwzA9bp0HZmzbI3L4

 

[suffolkowner]

The numbers are very telling. The NSSF is likley the best source for who is buying firearms as the traditional polling methods are more or less useless. who in their right mind would tell a stranger on a phone what your gun buying habits are?

12.1 million background checks
According to Mark Oliva, Director of Public Affairs at the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), more than 12.1 million background checks for new firearm sales have been conducted nationally since the beginning of the year. NSSF data show that 40 percent of people purchasing firearms are first-timers. “And of those first-time buyers, 58 percent are African American and 40 percent are women,” Oliva said in an interview with the Rappahannock News.


https://www.rappnews.com/news/business/like-milk-and-bread-in-a-snowstorm/article_fa5254f4-ea1a-11ea-aee9-0f8b031d33d9.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR06pYxnN49g6qrfD6KzmJ_qNujPumcKp3c74Y44DnxwzA9bp0HZmzbI3L4

I feel like this is just as applicable in the US Civil War thread

 

[shawn5o]

The numbers are very telling. The NSSF is likley the best source for who is buying firearms as the traditional polling methods are more or less useless. who in their right mind would tell a stranger on a phone what your gun buying habits are?

12.1 million background checks
According to Mark Oliva, Director of Public Affairs at the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), more than 12.1 million background checks for new firearm sales have been conducted nationally since the beginning of the year. NSSF data show that 40 percent of people purchasing firearms are first-timers. “And of those first-time buyers, 58 percent are African American and 40 percent are women,” Oliva said in an interview with the Rappahannock News.


https://www.rappnews.com/news/business/like-milk-and-bread-in-a-snowstorm/article_fa5254f4-ea1a-11ea-aee9-0f8b031d33d9.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR06pYxnN49g6qrfD6KzmJ_qNujPumcKp3c74Y44DnxwzA9bp0HZmzbI3L4

Hi Colin

Here's some more on first time purchases


As Kenosha and Minneapolis Burn, Millions of Americans Buy Guns

09/01/2020 Ryan McMaken

https://mises.org/wire/kenosha-and-minneapolis-burn-millions-americans-buy-guns?utm_source=Mises+Institute+Subscriptions&utm_campaign=bcc407b1fa-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_9_21_2018_9_59_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8b52b2e1c0-bcc407b1fa-228810079

It’s increasingly clear to even the average American that if riots come to your neighborhood, you’re on your own. The message received is increasingly be this: if your plan is to wait until the police show up to provide "protection," be prepared to wait a long time. Consequently, as violence appears to surge in America's cities, millions of Americans have become first-time gun owners.

Government Officials Aren't Keeping Us "Safe"

There are two trends at work which are making Americans doubt that government law enforcement is reliable and effective.

On the one hand, the public is witnessing nightly displays of looting, rioting, and general civil unrest. At the same time, many police officers don't appear particularly able or willing to defend the public against looters and rioters. Homicide rates in New York, for example, have surged among accusations of a "police slowdown." A number of police departments (including those in Los Angeles and Atlanta) are rumored to be using strategies such as the "blue flu" in which police personnel pretend to be ill as a negotiating tactic for obtaining political favors from lawmakers. But even when police personnel are able, there are not enough of them in most cases to truly address the ongoing nightly violence in many cities. And in some cases, elected officials, like in Portland and Chicago, appear uninterested in confronting rioters with much enthusiasm at all.

It easy to see how ordinary Americans could look on current events with increasing alarm.

…

For violent crimes, studies have shown police may take up to an hour to respond more than one-third of the time. (This summer, response times fo rthe NYPD are up by four minutes compared to last year.) And if one survives an attack from violent criminals, one shouldn’t assume justice will be done. Fewer than half of violent crimes are ever “solved” in the United States.

Gun Purchases Are Growing

Meanwhile, gun purchases have surged.

According to new estimates from the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), using the FBI’s National Instant Background Check System (NICS), “there were over 12 million guns bought in the first seven months of 2020—up more than 70 percent over the same time span in 2019. This number is likely to include nearly 5 million first-time gun owners so far this year.”

Moreover, as noted in an unsigned editorial at the Wall Street Journal,

The FBI’s most recent gun-sale figures are stunning. They show that in July the bureau carried out 3.6 million background checks, the third highest month on record. [T]his translates to 1.8 million gun sales for July 2020—a 122% increase over July 2019. The 12,141,032 gun sales through this July is just shy of the 13,199,172 sales for all of 2019.

LINK

I highlighted the sentences as I don't agree with the author's statement. I would say the "blue flu" is a result of the local politicians throwing the cops under the bus.  :2c:

 

[Donald H]

Good as long as the 12 million just buy guns and keep them safely under their pillows, so to speak. But if Americans decide to get proactive with their new guns and go out looking to eliminate the threat, then civil war can be avoided.
This would lead to more discussion on the Civil war thread.

(it is definitely implied that the 12 million aren't buying guns for hunting or for recreational activities.) This is wrongheaded as it's been found that a gun for protection in your home doesn't make the homeowner safer.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Donald H] This is wrongheaded as it's been found that a gun for protection in your home doesn't make the homeowner safer.
[/quote]

Yup.


Home Invasion Victim Kills Masked Robber in Self-defense
Apr 11, 2020
While most people were sheltering in their homes, two bandits wearing hospital masks staged a terrifying home invasion that left one of them dead. Caught off guard, an unsuspecting homeowner answered the door and the two robbers burst into his home. A struggle broke out and spilled out the front door as the homeowner staved off the burglars. One invader was able to flee, but the other was shot dead in the struggle. Illinois police say the homeowner opened fire in self defense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bErpVkQankg&app=desktop

 

[Donald H]

Yup.


Home Invasion Victim Kills Masked Robber in Self-defense
Apr 11, 2020
While most people were sheltering in their homes, two bandits wearing hospital masks staged a terrifying home invasion that left one of them dead. Caught off guard, an unsuspecting homeowner answered the door and the two robbers burst into his home. A struggle broke out and spilled out the front door as the homeowner staved off the burglars. One invader was able to flee, but the other was shot dead in the struggle. Illinois police say the homeowner opened fire in self defense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bErpVkQankg&app=desktop

I just refuse to hook into this one and 'Google' up an instance in which the homeowner, his wife, and his kids were all killed by the burglar.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I just refuse to hook into this one and 'Google' up an instance in which the homeowner, his wife, and his kids were all killed by the burglar.

Just flash your gun owners aren't safer at home study at the man wife and kids you`re talking about. I'm sure they'll agree.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Hi Colin

H

I highlighted the sentences as I don't agree with the author's statement. I would say the "blue flu" is a result of the local politicians throwing the cops under the bus.  :2c:

I would say you are 100% correct

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just flash your gun owners aren't safer at home study at the man wife and kids you`re talking about. I'm sure they'll agree.

No doubt he quote Kellerman as his source, LOL

 

[Donald H]

No doubt he quote Kellerman as his source, LOL

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

This particular study says the guns did even worse than the cops. None of which is meant as an argument against people owning guns. It's an argument against homeowners thinking they can fast draw a burglar, rapist, (or)?? when the bad guys gun is already a factor. At least that's what I interpret it to be.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The article references Kellerman studies, which is why I laugh, they always do.

 

[Jarnhamar]

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

This particular study says the guns did even worse than the cops. None of which is meant as an argument against people owning guns. It's an argument against homeowners thinking they can fast draw a burglar, rapist, (or)?? when the bad guys gun is already a factor. At least that's what I interpret it to be.

Who do you think wins in this clip; tiny woman with a pistol or 3 burglars with pistols?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvN1EvrYYkk

 

[Haggis]

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

This particular study says the guns did even worse than the cops. None of which is meant as an argument against people owning guns. It's an argument against homeowners thinking they can fast draw a burglar, rapist, (or)?? when the bad guys gun is already a factor. At least that's what I interpret it to be.

What this article mentions is that the majority of accidents in the home involving firearms are due to improper or unsafe storage (i.e storing as gun that's loaded or storing in an easily accessible location) and a lack of safety training.  These are two factors which are very well addressed by Canadian gun laws.

 

[Kat Stevens]

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

This particular study says the guns did even worse than the cops. None of which is meant as an argument against people owning guns. It's an argument against homeowners thinking they can fast draw a burglar, rapist, (or)?? when the bad guys gun is already a factor. At least that's what I interpret it to be.

If you get into a standup gunfight with a baddie in your own home, you are tactically inept.

 

[Donald H]

If you get into a standup gunfight with a baddie in your own home, you are tactically inept.

This link was posted by jarnhamar. https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

That little lady wasn't tactically inept by any stretch. But in any case your point has some meaning if I've guessed right. She would have been more tactically adept had she run next door and called the cops.

Because: It looks like she was lucky to avoid all the lead in the air.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This link was posted by jarnhamar. https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

You sure about that? 

Looks to me like you're quoting yourself.

 

[Donald H]

Oops sorry jarhamar, I posted the wrong link. Here's the right one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvN1EvrYYkk

Thanks for picking up on that because I felt it was important to point out to answer on the 'tactically inept' comment.
So she either got really lucky or she was very tactically adept!