Guns or Drones or Both?

[Colin Parkinson]

Russians are fitting drone detectors to their helicopters that alerts them when a drone is in the vicinity.

I can see the use of a lot UGV's with gun systems to provide close in drone defense, to protect an evacuation route, advance or similar. You need a fair bit of overlap, so a UGV can have it's ammo topped up while under protection of a couple of others. They can move after every engagement, to avoid being targeted by artillery.

UGV that deploy and or recover EW systems and some UGV that have a small missile system to take out high flying UAS's would also be needed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Vampires drones now have their own automated defense turret

 

[Kirkhill]

I am including this here because I consider (personal opinion) to be on the Drone/UAS/Loitering Munition spectrum.

The article makes the point that volume decreases costs and increases speed of delivery

Raytheon has received an extension of the contract for the production of Tomahawk Block V cruise missiles, which will reduce the price of each of them by $ 0.8 million and force production to accelerate by half​

"the average cost of one Tomahawk missile has decreased from $3 million to $2.2 million, taking into account the fact that the notional cost in the additional order is generally $1.75 million. This quite clearly demonstrates how much the cost of a unit of production can decrease depending on the volume of production."

"Previously, the production rate was supposed to be a nominal 3.35 missiles per month, and now the average Tomahawk production rate should increase to a nominal 7.14 missiles per month."

U.S. Orders Additional Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Even Cheaper Due to Large Order | Defense Express

Raytheon has received an extension of the contract for the production of Tomahawk Block V cruise missiles, which will reduce the price of each of them by $ 0.8 million and force production to accelerate by half

en.defence-ua.com

I suggest that those numbers are closer to the target numbers for the Kratos line of CCA drones.

 

[Kirkhill]

LIkewise with the JSM/NSM

Cruise MIssile or UAS or Loitering Munition?

America’s New Joint Strike Missile Is Key for Beyond-Visual-Horizon Warfare

The Joint Strike Missile—under development by Norwegian defense contractor Kongsberg for the US Air Force—includes key stealth features that previous US air-to-ground missiles have lacked.

nationalinterest.org

 

[Kirkhill]

On the UGV front

Sticking TOWs and Blowpipes and other SACLOS missiles on mobile tripods.

How Robots Could Restore the Relevance of Stugna-P and Other Ukrainian ATGMs | Defense Express

The expanding use of unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) opens the possibility of restoring the relevance of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), a role that has largely been taken over by FPV drones in recent years

en.defence-ua.com

"The primary drawback remains cost. An ATGM system, not to mention a full combat module, may be more expensive than the unmanned ground vehicle carrying it. According to the Brave1 Market, UGV platforms suitable for such integration may cost approximately USD 15,000–18,000, while more advanced options can reach USD 40,000–60,000.

"At the same time, the export price of a single Stugna-P missile has been estimated at around USD 20,000. This inevitably raises questions about cost-effectiveness, a metric frequently cited in discussions of unmanned systems."

Is cost really factor if the tripod of a TOW system can be replaced with a remote control cart that can extend the operator's reach by 5 to 20 km for 20,000 CAD?

Or a pod of 70mms or Starstreaks or an HMG or light cannon like the M230 LF? Or a mine detector?

 

[Kirkhill]

Chinese Ground Units Deploy New ZRY222 Combat Robots With Rocket Launchers to Support Infantry in Exercises

Chinese People’s Liberation Army Ground Forces units operating under the Eastern Theater Command troops used the ZRY222 tracked unmanned fire support vehicle to provide

militarywatchmagazine.com

The Chinese not waiting to adopt future armour. Infantry support.

 

[HavokFour]

Chinese Ground Units Deploy New ZRY222 Combat Robots With Rocket Launchers to Support Infantry in Exercises

Chinese People’s Liberation Army Ground Forces units operating under the Eastern Theater Command troops used the ZRY222 tracked unmanned fire support vehicle to provide

militarywatchmagazine.com

The Chinese not waiting to adopt future armour. Infantry support.

View attachment 97648

Much easier to transport when island hopping too. Ukraine is also seeing success holding parts of the line with UGV's instead of actual warm bodies.

 

[Kirkhill]

Much easier to transport when island hopping too. Ukraine is also seeing success holding parts of the line with UGV's instead of actual warm bodies.

The only thing that I found myself wondering when Ukraine announced that UGV was on the line for 45 days was wgere was the crew all that time? Was it one crew in a hole with a tether for 45 days? Or did they swap crews? Or was the crew in a luxury hotel in Lviv?

 

[HavokFour]

The only thing that I found myself wondering when Ukraine announced that UGV was on the line for 45 days was wgere was the crew all that time? Was it one crew in a hole with a tether for 45 days? Or did they swap crews? Or was the crew in a luxury hotel in Lviv?

Unclear, but from the photo's in the media they're all sporting a Starlink dish. I assume they may periodically be swapping out drones to refuel/rearm/new batteries. But that wouldn't necessarily require a constantly manned position further back near the line, they could simply be meeting up with it at a predetermined point with a loaded up pickup.

 

[Kirkhill]

More on the use of UGVs.

Pickup truck plus trailer plus UGV.
12 AT Mines delivered by UGV through rubble to Russian pit and detonated.
20 km trip on a tether? Or Starlink?

How Ukraine Erased an Entire Russian Unit Using a Single Ground Combat Robot, Video

Footage reveals the capabilities of robotic systems in warfare, as Ukrainian forces use a drone to neutralize a Russian military detachment.

united24media.com

 

[HavokFour]

More on the use of UGVs.

Pickup truck plus trailer plus UGV.
12 AT Mines delivered by UGV through rubble to Russian pit and detonated.
20 km trip on a tether? Or Starlink?

How Ukraine Erased an Entire Russian Unit Using a Single Ground Combat Robot, Video

Footage reveals the capabilities of robotic systems in warfare, as Ukrainian forces use a drone to neutralize a Russian military detachment.

united24media.com

Hard to tell because of the cuts and quality, but @ 00:00 and 0:25 that could be a mini mounted up high in the back left corner. Definitely not tethered, there'd be a spool.

Standard (Latest Model): 59.4 cm x 38.3 cm
Gen 1 (Original Circular): 58 cm diameter
Gen 2 (Rectangular): 51.4 cm x 30.5 cm
Starlink Mini: 29.8 cm x 25.9 cm

 

[Kirkhill]

Much easier to transport when island hopping too. Ukraine is also seeing success holding parts of the line with UGV's instead of actual warm bodies.

On the island hopping (and Canadian) front...



Amphibious Argo 8x8 UGV from Rheinmetall employed by USMC on exercise. Launched from sea.

Germany’s Rheinmetall demonstrates amphibious Mission Master SP2 ground robot capabilities in NATO trials

Rheinmetall’s Mission Master SP2 shows new amphibious capability during NATO drills in Portugal, highlighting rising demand for littoral unmanned systems.

armyrecognition.com

 

[HavokFour]

Some recent footage of Russian UGV's, two variations by the looks of it. Both appear to be radio operated. One almost immediately taken out by a mine, the other a Ukrainian FPV.

This one is similar to the early Ukrainian UGV's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1q6r26g/russian_logistics_ground_drone_explodes_on_the

And this one looks quite large, perhaps bigger than the ones Ukraine has armed with a mounted M2.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1q7gjdy/footage_of_a_ukrainian_fpv_pilot_attacking

 

[HavokFour]

Officially entering service. I didn't even realize there was a wheeled variant as well, the tracked one got a lot more coverage.

Ukraine Approves Zmiy Droid 12.7 Ground Combat Robot - Oj

Ukraine’s Defense Forces have approved the Zmiy Droid 12.7 ground robotic system, a Ukrainian‑made strike and reconnaissance platform for high‑intensity combat.

odessa-journal.com

It can also mount a 10m telescopic mast for surveillance or communication relay purposes.