Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada

[Sythen]

Palestinians inside Libya, or Syria, or Iran? What?!

What kills me about Israel is that they essentially turned the Gaza Strip and West Bank into giant prisons, keep the Palestianians from being able to exercise any sort of democratic rights (unless, of course, Israel approves), and have essentially strangled any hope for economic development in them. Until they stop doing that, and accept a two-state solution (which, incidentally, a good chunk of Israelis understand is the only way forward), they're not going to get peace.  And they're going to keep pissing off the world as they use things like collective punishment to deal with what happens as a result of the way they treat the Palestinians. Given the history which led to the creation of the State of Israel, arguably the most disastrous foreign policy decision in history, the irony of their use of such tactics is rich indeed. Fortunately, I think most people who live there are decent people, and I'm hoping that when Netanyahu is gone they might elect someone a little more reasonable and start actually working toward a solution.

And I am done. Please come out of your cave and join the rest of the world. I will end by giving you a video to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdH0XxDEjG4

 

[Sythen]

Palestinians inside Libya, or Syria, or Iran? What?!

I will correct myself, I meant Lebanon not Libya

 

[Edward Campbell]

Israel (the Zionists, first) has been negotiating, in one form or another, with the Arabs for 110 years - ever since the Jewish National Fund was established to buy Arab land for Jewish farms. The negotiations have borne some, but little, fruit. One problem is that a large, influential and increasingly powerful segment of the Arabs regards the existence of a Jewish state, actually any non-Islamic state, in the region as an abomination. For this group the only acceptable outcome is the dissolution of Israel as an entity. Jews are 'welcome,' after a fashion, to stay on as second class citizens (see your own favourite definition of "dhimmitude"). There are, I think limits to how much Israel must 'give' for whatever the Arabs will call peace.

That aside, Israel's response to attacks from Gaza and the West Bank is debatable in technique and it appears to be ineffective.

(I, personally, were I an Israeli, would advocate for a bigger, better fence - encompassing some of the settlements - leaving the others to their (sad) fate - that would totally isolate the West Bank and Gaza. No Palestinian who was not a citizen of Israel would be allowed to enter Israel, for any reason, under any circumstances. Attacks from the West Bank and Gaza would be countered with massive, bloody and totally indiscriminate reprisal attacks - one missile would net a return of 100 or so; repeat as necessary. I do not believe that the Arabs will ever reconcile themselves to a Jewish state in the "ummah" so why bother trying? Lock them out - if they don't want peace then blow therm away.)

But, eventually, I believe that the Arabs will prevail. I do not think that Israel is strategically defensible - not even with nukes. I do not believe that America can or will defend Israel and I do not think that Israel can, time after time, every single time, defeat all its Arab neighbours and, as Israelis know, Israel must win every time; the Arabs just need to get lucky once.

 

[Redeye]

And in your diluted mind, when Iran finally does do something, you will come up with 100 ways to say the same thing.. oh it was different because blah blah blah.. Before 9/11, you would have been saying the same thing about a preemptive strike against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Its amazing the mental gymnastics some people can do all to preserve their notion of everything is good in the world, except Steven Harper. He is all that is bad, right? Him at that Tea Party...

Except I didn't. I had no problem with going after Al Qaeda long before in Sudan and Afghanistan. Nor do I have a particular problem with Stephen Harper. I voted for his party the first couple of times, after all.

Forgot to reply to this little gem. If the world was only so simple to make your little fantasy a reality, I would grow long hair, smoke weed and sing kumbaya..  I love when people misuse this quote. Tell this quote to the victims in NY and Washington.. or Madrid or London.. Tell them that they died so that shady characters making shady purchases can avoid being questioned about it.

The quote isn't misused. There must be, in a free society, some semblance of balance. When we start using a threat which is still remote at the end of the day to start justifying a massive curtailing of basic civil liberties, there's a very serious problem. Frankly, the odds of being killed by lightning, a road traffic accident, medical malpractice, and various other things are substantially higher than the odds of being killed in a terrorist attack, so you'll have to forgive me for thinking that the use of fearmongering to impugne personal liberties is largely a problem.

One of the most remarkable things about the recent attack in Norway is that the King and Government basically stated that they won't let that one horrible event change the way they live, won't let it threaten their democracy or their liberties. That's a brave statement, and I was glad to hear it.

 

[lethalLemon]

So you'll tolerate an attack on basic ideas of liberty? "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Frankin

The idea of starting to trample on basic individual liberties in response to a vague threat is something that should be a national conversation.  I bet sitting in jail sounds alright as long as it's not you.

:facepalm:

More "OMG the CBC hates Harper" poutrage. As I understand it, it was a long, pretty continuous interview, not a bunch of cropped shots allowing for clever editing. Mr. Harper did also talk about other issues, but the statement about "Islamicism" stood out.

Can we shorten this paragraph to "I have no idea what I'm talking about" or delete it altogether? Since you admit you don't know about how Israel runs (or that "honor killings" aren't legal there and never have been), maybe it'd be better if you just stay in your lane. Israel, apart from its appalling treatment of its Palestinian "neighbours", is a pretty civilized, moden democracy with laws generally like you'd find in Western countries.

1) Did I ever say it would be okay if it wasn't me? No, I did not. However, if I were ever to be arrested under these laws under suspicion of terrorism, I would cooperate because I know: 1) I'll never partake in such acts 2) I have no reason to not cooperate as it's for the collection protection of the nation. If that's what the law states, well, then it shall be done. I'd rather sit in a prison cell for 3 days and be told "Everything is okay, you can go home" than to have a bomb go off, killing my friends and family, or some crazed utopian freak like you, go gun down a bunch of children at a Summer Camp. If that's what you truly believe, then why not just invite the Taliban, or Hamas or Hezbollah or al-Qaeda into our country with open arms, treat them as every other immigrant/landed immigrant/permanent resident/and eventually citizen, and see what happens. Those f*ckers don't scare me because I know my government will protect me. That's what they're there for. Need we to remember the October Crisis? That is your classic example of Homegrown terrorism.

2) Okay, so the Islamicism statement stood out, but why should it stand out? Why can't those other issues stand out too? This is what I'm talking about, they don't report on the whole picture and just take one statement and paint him a bad man. I never said they are "Anti-Harper" or ALWAYS painting him as a bad man... it just seems IMHO that they do it FAR too often.

3) Whoa whoa whoa, cool your jets... That's why I said, I DON'T KNOW. I know that honour killings aren't legal in Israel, but I don't know how the rest of the country works... That's ALSO why I said that OTHER NATIONS in that area, have it legalized due to Sharia Law etc. It would really help if you didn't take things so personally, and read posts in their entirety before lunging at people.

EDIT: All in all, I don't want these laws to pass, from the deepest depths of my heart and mind - truly, madly, deeply, I do not. I want the them to focus on more pressing issues like the unemployment rates and stupid housing costs (economy) and healthcare. Am I not allowed to engage in discussion? I engage in discussions like these to learn not to be flamed and yelled at by people like you just because I said something you don't like.

 

[lethalLemon]

*FILLER*

These two posts that you quoted:

Quote from: lethalLemon on Today at 07:10:25
Wonder how many people said that when Al Qaeda declared war on the US back in the 90's? Yea just ignore the problem, it will go away.. Bin Laden is just giving rhetoric for domestic consumption, he's smart enough to know the USA would kill him if he did anything, right?

and

Quote from: lethalLemon on Today at 07:10:25
Unfortunately, people like you all you do is watch and wait.. Then when crap hits the fan, you will complain about how the CIA knew and did nothing, etc etc.. So tired of it...

Were not made by me. However I do agree with them.

Please fix thank you.

 

[Redeye]

1) Did I ever say it would be okay if it wasn't me? No, I did not. However, if I were ever to be arrested under these laws under suspicion of terrorism, I would cooperate because I know: 1) I'll never partake in such acts 2) I have no reason to not cooperate as it's for the collection protection of the nation. If that's what the law states, well, then it shall be done. I'd rather sit in a prison cell for 3 days and be told "Everything is okay, you can go home" than to have a bomb go off, killing my friends and family, or some crazed utopian freak like you, go gun down a bunch of children at a Summer Camp. If that's what you truly believe, then why not just invite the Taliban, or Hamas or Hezbollah or al-Qaeda into our country with open arms, treat them as every other immigrant/landed immigrant/permanent resident/and eventually citizen, and see what happens. Those f*ckers don't scare me because I know my government will protect me. That's what they're there for. Need we to remember the October Crisis? That is your classic example of Homegrown terrorism.

Rich you call me "some crazed utopian freak" then later try to say you shouldn't be flamed for making a statement you clearly didn't put any thought into.

2) Okay, so the Islamicism statement stood out, but why should it stand out? Why can't those other issues stand out too? This is what I'm talking about, they don't report on the whole picture and just take one statement and paint him a bad man. I never said they are "Anti-Harper" or ALWAYS painting him as a bad man... it just seems IMHO that they do it FAR too often.

Are they critical of him? Sure. That's what media, ideally, is supposed to do. They were also critical of Martin, Chretien, etc.

3) Whoa whoa whoa, cool your jets... That's why I said, I DON'T KNOW. I know that honour killings aren't legal in Israel, but I don't know how the rest of the country works... That's ALSO why I said that OTHER NATIONS in that area, have it legalized due to Sharia Law etc. It would really help if you didn't take things so personally, and read posts in their entirety before lunging at people.

Honor killings aren't necessarily a sharia law thing (let me guess, that's something else you're not exactly "up on" - they've also been identified as an issue in several South American countries, including Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Peru, and Ecuador, and secular Arab states like Egypt.

EDIT: All in all, I don't want these laws to pass, from the deepest depths of my heart and mind - truly, madly, deeply, I do not. I want the them to focus on more pressing issues like the unemployment rates and stupid housing costs (economy) and healthcare. Am I not allowed to engage in discussion? I engage in discussions like these to learn not to be flamed and yelled at by people like you just because I said something you don't like.

Then discuss we shall! That's good. But just don't go making too many assumptions, because clearly that doesn't help.

 

[Redeye]

These two posts that you quoted:
Were not made by me. However I do agree with them.
Please fix thank you.

Done - I cut and pasted the wrong trackback. Sorry.

 

[lethalLemon]

Rich you call me "some crazed utopian freak" then later try to say you shouldn't be flamed for making a statement you clearly didn't put any thought into.

I didn't say come out and say "you're basically pretty much an idiot because I didn't bother to read the part that says you didn't know, so you should just delete your post and never type on the interwebs again" - which, is what I interpreted from what you wrote.

Are they critical of him? Sure. That's what media, ideally, is supposed to do. They were also critical of Martin, Chretien, etc.

Understood, however they could do a better job, like I previously stated they should have made ALL of the issues stand out, and not just nit pick on his statement of "Islamicism".

Honor killings aren't necessarily a sharia law thing (let me guess, that's something else you're not exactly "up on" - they've also been identified as an issue in several South American countries, including Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Peru, and Ecuador, and secular Arab states like Egypt.

But I wasn't talking about South America. I said nations around Israel, and I said Sharia Law and ETC because there are other things that I am aware of that are a result of/attribute to honour killings. I know that they've been addressed as an issue in South America, but that was not the discussion at hand.

Then discuss we shall! That's good. But just don't go making too many assumptions, because clearly that doesn't help.

I'm not making assumptions, I am making statements based on what I have learned/known - whether correct or not - and looking to gain knowledge through others, rather than just being told "No, you're wrong, shut up."

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Understood, however they could do a better job, like I previously stated they should have made ALL of the issues stand out, and not just nit pick on his statement of "Islamicism".

In all fairness one must `pick on`that which stands out,......every talk show today in this region has been jumping all over Mr. McGuinty`s $10,000 `hire an immigrant`scheme, not the rest of his platform.

 

[Redeye]

In all fairness one must `pick on`that which stands out,......every talk show today in this region has been jumping all over Mr. McGuinty`s $10,000 `hire an immigrant`scheme, not the rest of his platform.

Precisely. There will always be things that rise above other issues, regardless of political stripes.  Harper's statement in this interview got the most attention because it's probably the most controversial, particularly in the context of the laws he wants to reintroduce. The media making it a focal point of discussion is basically doing their job.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  Harper's

Time for my rant....................why do "we" address the Prime Minister and provincial Ministers, etc., with so little respect. Would a Mister/ Ms. in front of our leaders and wannabe leaders names hurt that much?        Rant done.
[not just directed at you Redeye but folks in general]

 

[Redeye]

Time for my rant....................why do "we" address the Prime Minister and provincial Ministers, etc., with so little respect. Would a Mister/ Ms. in front of our leaders and wannabe leaders names hurt that much?        Rant done.
[not just directed at you Redeye but folks in general]

Fair dinkum. I tend to do so, at least sometimes - but the point is well-made.

 

[a_majoor]

While the Prime Minister may be preparing the ground for State action to deal with the problem, as a libertarian I am in favour of DIY solutions. Given the diffuse nature of the problem and the limitations imposed by the "Local Knowledge Problem", DIY can be faster and more efficient:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fighting-islamic-terror-a-personal-duty/

Fighting Islamic Terror: A Personal Duty

Posted By Ryan Mauro On September 9, 2011 @ 12:00 am In Uncategorized | 4 Comments

The tenth anniversary of 9/11 will be marked with painful memories, and for the first time some sense of resolution with the death of Osama bin Laden. Let’s challenge ourselves to further mark the anniversary with deeds.

First and foremost, we should honor the soldiers who have risked their lives for us, and September 11 is a time to go beyond thanking them for their service. Deliver a gift to them. If you can’t afford to, then offer help: cook them a meal, mow their lawns, walk their dogs, babysit their children, run errands. Donate time or money to organizations helping soldiers that have returned home.

If you oppose the Ground Zero mosque, consider attending a screening of Sacrificed Survivors: The Untold Story of the Ground Zero Mega-Mosque [1]. The Christian Action Network [2] will be holding screenings [3] on September 9, 10, and 13 in public parks in New York City. Over a dozen churches are showing the film this September 11.

There are a variety of organizations fighting radical Islam that you can support with ideas, opportunities, financial contributions, and the overlooked but equally important donation of time. There are religious-oriented groups like the Christian Action Network and Eagles’ Wings, which runs the Israel Experience program [4] — it provides jam-packed educational trips to Israel for Christian students, with myself being one of them. The American Congress for Truth [5] has chapters around the country that you can join, or you can start one of your own. There’s the Investigative Project on Terrorism [6], the Center for Security Policy [7], and the The United West [8]. There are respectable anti-Islamist Muslim groups like the American-Islamic Forum for Democracy [9] and American Islamic Congress [10]. No matter what your interest or niche is, there is an activist group fighting on your behalf.

You can financially attack state sponsors of terrorism by investing in terror-free mutual funds [11], which do not support companies operating in Iran, Syria, Sudan, and North Korea. Go to the website of United Against Nuclear Iran [12] to make sure you aren’t supporting companies in bed with the world’s largest sponsor of terrorism. Educate anyone overseeing a fund, such as endowments and pension funds, about becoming terror-free. This campaign has been widely successful — see Los Angeles [13] — as it isn’t that difficult to convince people to stop supporting their enemies.

Another easy thing to accomplish is booking guest speakers and film screenings at churches, synagogues, community centers, and colleges, where clubs devoted to history and politics are always looking for things to do. There are fantastic documentaries out there — like Iranium [14], The Third Jihad [15], and Homegrown Jihad [16] — that capture audiences in ways that textbooks and lectures cannot. These films and related books can also be donated to public libraries.

If you want to make activism a bigger part of your life, become involved in an ACT chapter and get on the email lists of the aforementioned organizations. Get on the email lists of your local colleges’ political clubs, so you can see what they are teaching their students. Join the newsletters and Facebook groups of nearby Islamic centers, schools, and mosques, and learn about the speakers they are bringing in and the texts they are promoting. These activist groups cannot be everywhere at once, and they need you to keep track of what happens where you live.

Put words into action. No one will forget 9/11, but many seem to be forgetting the lessons of 9/11. For too many, the attacks are being treated as one of those shocking but inevitable disasters in life. The focus is less on seeing 9/11 as a foreshadowing of things to come and more of a historical event whose relevance has passed.

On August 3, liberal political analyst Bob Beckel was debating the Rep. Allen West event [17] against the Ground Zero mosque on The Five on Fox News Channel. My jaw dropped when Beckel said:

    We all understand 9/11, but you got to get over this in New York, the rest of us are being affected by it.

Get over it? I was speechless, not over just what he said, but by the lack of a reaction to it. The show is averaging [18] 1.5 million viewers — and it was as if Beckel never said anything. That’s the mindset we must fight against on the tenth anniversary of 9/11.

The power of an active citizenry cannot be underestimated. By and large, the American people have not been engaged in the war against radical Islam, mostly because they weren’t given instructions by their leaders — they were simply waiting for the word. On this anniversary of 9/11, let’s stop thinking of the war against radical Islam as a job for our government, and start thinking of it as a duty for us.

Article printed from Pajamas Media: http://pajamasmedia.com

URL to article: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fighting-islamic-terror-a-personal-duty/

URLs in this post:

[1] Sacrificed Survivors: The Untold Story of the Ground Zero Mega-Mosque: https://www.christianaction.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=18

[2] Christian Action Network: http://www.christianaction.org/

[3] screenings: http://christianaction.org/node/300

[4] Israel Experience program: http://eagleswings.to/israel/israelexperience

[5] American Congress for Truth: http://www.actforamerica.org/

[6] Investigative Project on Terrorism: http://www.investigativeproject.org/

[7] Center for Security Policy: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/

[8] The United West: http://www.theunitedwest.org/

[9] American-Islamic Forum for Democracy: http://www.aifdemocracy.org/

[10] American Islamic Congress: http://www.aicongress.org/

[11] terror-free mutual funds: http://www.terrorfreecalculator.com/

[12] United Against Nuclear Iran: http://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/

[13] see Los Angeles: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/jewish-leaders.html

[14] Iranium: http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/

[15] The Third Jihad: http://www.thethirdjihad.com/10-year-911/index3.php

[16] Homegrown Jihad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPu7iVLSyX8

[17] event: http://theunitedwest.org/remember-911-with-allen-west-you-are-invited-sept-7-2011/

[18] averaging: http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/fox-the-five-beck/2011/08/31/id/409375

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
Prime minister says Conservatives will bring back controversial anti-terrorism laws
Link here http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/09/06/harper-911-terrorism-islamic-interview.html

E.R. Campbell made reference to this in another post.

I respectfully submit the the imploding global economy is much bigger problem.

I feel like he is targetting Islam, the religion, to closley with that statement.  I paintballed with those who practice Islam, nice group of students.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I feel like he is targetting Islam, the religion, to closley with that statement.  I paintballed with those who practice Islam, nice group of students.

He's not targeting the religion, or Muslims, in general. He's speaking about the radical fundamentalists. That should be more than obvious to any clear, level headed person that has at least a grade five education. About time too.

Too many people are are scared the PC police will come and lock them up if they call a spade a spade. There's a whole generation of namby pamby, don't speak ill of the devil, people out there that just don't get it.

The idea that people get all high and mighty and take offence at the merest perceived slight is what is really offensive.

 

[Infanteer]

I feel like he is targetting Islam, the religion, to closley with that statement.  I paintballed with those who practice Islam, nice group of students.

Well, you've obviously targetted Muslims too....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well, you've obviously targetted Muslims too....

:rofl:

 

[FlyingDutchman]

True, damn buggers moved fast too.

 

[Redeye]

While the Prime Minister may be preparing the ground for State action to deal with the problem, as a libertarian I am in favour of DIY solutions. Given the diffuse nature of the problem and the limitations imposed by the "Local Knowledge Problem", DIY can be faster and more efficient:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fighting-islamic-terror-a-personal-duty/

Not that I'm surprised how crappy the content would be given the source, but I stopped reading this as soon as it referred to the "Ground Zero Mosque".  Which, of course, doesn't exist, will not exist. It's this kind of idiotic, fabricated hyperbole that is precisely the problem - attacking an entire group for the actions of a tiny fringe therein. The concept of Park51 is actually pretty good, a community centre incorporating space for all and a memorial. It's not surprising to me that it enjoys the support of the families of quite a few 9/11 victims, and I can't help but notice the thinly-veiled racism behind most of the attacks on the efforts of a group to develop space which they own.