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Helicopter working with HMCS Fredericton missing?

MilEME09

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Eye In The Sky said:
CDS reporting as "recovered" now.

Does the CAF/DND have the ability to analyze the FDR/CVR on their own or does it have to be handed over to the TSB for analysis?
 

Baz

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MilEME09 said:
Does the CAF/DND have the ability to analyze the FDR/CVR on their own or does it have to be handed over to the TSB for analysis?

Refer to the CDS's comments.  It will be handed over.
 

Navy_Pete

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This is pretty tragic; thoughts are with family and friends.

Ride alongs are pretty normal though when the helo is out doing training; it's great for integrating the air crew into the ship's company, and makes a massive difference when you've seen first hand what tools they bring to the table. Totally different seeing it first hand then knowing on paper, and Abbigail would have been working closely with the air det to support helo ops when she got to be the ship's engineer, and doing those things as a SLt is hugely helpful later on. Hope that doesn't get banned in a knee jerk reaction.
 

Quirky

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Navy_Pete said:
Hope that doesn't get banned in a knee jerk reaction.

There are plenty of Karens in the world, including our very own military, who don't see the bigger picture and implement rules based on like you said, knee jerk reactions. Flying in whiry birds has its risks, they are complicated mechanical assholes regardless of age. Still though, I wouldn't hesitate to step foot on any RCAF operated flying aircraft.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Rotary wing over-water ops carry some specific challenges and risks when it comes to emergency situations;  I wouldn't consider ceasing PAX flights over-water "knee jerk", given the current situation, until the appropriate question/answer processes have been completed (HTEM conversations in HPMA-speak).
 

Good2Golf

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Eye In The Sky said:
Rotary wing over-water ops carry some specific challenges and risks when it comes to emergency situations;  I wouldn't consider ceasing PAX flights over-water "knee jerk", given the current situation, until the appropriate question/answer processes have been completed (HTEM conversations in HPMA-speak).

:nod:

In assessing benefits, one considers the risks as well.  RCAF/MH and RCN leadership will no doubt take the appropriate action to ensure appropriate measures are in place to retain as much of the benefit as possible while giving due regard for the risks. So that people appreciate some of the potential factors to consider, the ability of crew or passengers to escape from a ditched or sinking helicopter requires at best, an ability that is best put in place through applicable training (RUET/HUET - rotary-wing/helicopter underwater escape training) and certification, then regular refresh to maintain qualification currency. In some cases, procedures and policy may permit such training and qualification to be waived, and that may be reviewed and revised accordingly. 

Regards
G2G
 

Baz

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I was at sea when we stopped allowing passengers at night on the Sea King except for operational purposes.  I don't remember that there had been any particular incident that perpetuated it.  It was just an evaluation of risk versus need.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons why ship's company may be on the aircraft; famil flights is one of them.  But certainly there is a risk involved.  It is why certain trades that may be required to be there actually get ruet (SKT can be more specific).  However, it is unreasonable to believe nobody without ruet will be onboard.  The aircraft is a primary means of logistic support including pax transfer.
 

daftandbarmy

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Baz said:
I was at sea when we stopped allowing passengers at night on the Sea King except for operational purposes.  I don't remember that there had been any particular incident that perpetuated it.  It was just an evaluation of risk versus need.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons why ship's company may be on the aircraft; famil flights is one of them.  But certainly there is a risk involved.  It is why certain trades that may be required to be there actually get ruet (SKT can be more specific).  However, it is unreasonable to believe nobody without ruet will be onboard.  The aircraft is a primary means of logistic support including pax transfer.

When travelling for business, by air, between Victoria Harbour and Vancouver I usually choose the Twotters over the Helijet. People look at me kind of funny because, you know, luxury helicopter travel, and ask me why.

My usual response is along the lines of: 'I've flown a fair bit in helicopters over water and I prefer an aircraft that has a) a glide path and b) floats.' 

My thoughts are with the Freddie and her crew, and all those lost at sea and their families.

'Ready, Aye Ready - Per Ardua ad Astra'  :salute: :cdn:
 

MilEME09

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Anyone been to that region and know the conditions? On average how long could a person survive in those waters?
 

Baz

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MilEME09 said:
Anyone been to that region and know the conditions? On average how long could a person survive in those waters?

9 months for 2 sharp guards.  Air temperature is normally quite high, but you could be in poopy suits a lot due to the water temperature.
 

gryphonv

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MilEME09 said:
Anyone been to that region and know the conditions? On average how long could a person survive in those waters?

Lots of variables we don't have really. From a quick google search sea temps over there are 13-17 degrees, which is 1-2 hours until exhaustion or unconsciousness.

They should have had survival suits on. They may have deployed a raft. There are still lots of reasons to remain optimistic.
 

Underway

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I sailed there almost exactly a year ago.  The water was about 15-17 degree's C.  Spring cottage swimming temp.  We did a SWIMEX and after 40 min I could barely operate my digits to climb up the scramble net out of the water. From hypothermia tables that's a 2-40hr survival time unprotected.  Unconcious in approx 2-7hrs.  In my currently uninformed opinion, they are still in survival time for the next day or so assuming their survival suits held and they aren't injured.
 

dapaterson

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OTTAWA — The Canadian Armed Forces has identified the five service members missing in Wednesday's helicopter crash off the coast of Greece.

The government earlier today confirmed that Sub-Lt. Abbigail Cowbrough died when the Cyclone helicopter crashed.

Those missing are:

Capt. Brenden Ian MacDonald, one of the Cyclone helicopter's pilots. He is originally from New Glasgow, N.S.

Capt. Kevin Hagen, the Cyclone's other pilot. He is originally from Nanaimo, B.C.

Capt. Maxime Miron-Morin, an air combat systems officer, originally from Trois-Rivieres, Que.

Sub-Lt. Matthew Pyke, naval weapons officer, originally from Truro, N.S.

Master Cpl. Matthew Cousins, airborne electronic sensor operator, originally from Guelph, Ont.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 30, 2020.


https://www.stalberttoday.ca/national-news/military-identifies-service-members-missing-in-deadly-helicopter-crash-2294258
 

Baz

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Eye In The Sky said:
The aircrew would also have had their slimline backpacks on (you can see it in the attached pic on the mbr being hoisted), which includes a 1-pers inflatable life raft.

The 10 man raft is mounted externally in the right sponson, and is activated as part of the (uncontrolled or controlled) ditching procedures (you don't want to release it prior to  rotors stopped).

Notwithstanding that, it's probably not a useful discussion thread.

 

BeyondTheNow

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dapaterson said:
OTTAWA — The Canadian Armed Forces has identified the five service members missing in Wednesday's helicopter crash off the coast of Greece.

The government earlier today confirmed that Sub-Lt. Abbigail Cowbrough died when the Cyclone helicopter crashed.

Those missing are:

Capt. Brenden Ian MacDonald, one of the Cyclone helicopter's pilots. He is originally from New Glasgow, N.S.

Capt. Kevin Hagen, the Cyclone's other pilot. He is originally from Nanaimo, B.C.

Capt. Maxime Miron-Morin, an air combat systems officer, originally from Trois-Rivieres, Que.

Sub-Lt. Matthew Pyke, naval weapons officer, originally from Truro, N.S.

Master Cpl. Matthew Cousins, airborne electronic sensor operator, originally from Guelph, Ont.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 30, 2020.


https://www.stalberttoday.ca/national-news/military-identifies-service-members-missing-in-deadly-helicopter-crash-2294258

2020 is weighing heavily on many and this is an additional shock. Words aren’t enough to soothe yet another loss for Canadians, nor ease the discomfort already being experienced by those affected directly and indirectly. But thoughts and prayers are extended to fellow colleagues, their friends & families.
 

The Bread Guy

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:cdnsalute:

The attached, via social media, and this from the G-G  ...
Every day, our men and women in uniform serve the country here and abroad. They train constantly, and we know that training can sometimes be as dangerous as the mission itself. We grieve the loss of one CAF member and are closely following as the search and rescue efforts continue in Greece to locate those missing in the crash of the CH-148 helicopter yesterday.

Julie Payette

‑30‑​
 

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Jc066

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Did I just read this thread wrong or was the tail number just noted? And now removed?
 

PuckChaser

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Jc066 said:
Did I just read this thread wrong or was the tail number just noted? And now removed?

The individual who posted it, removed it. Its available open source via Google search if you need it.
 

AirDet

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I'll be watching closely for the FS team's initial release. Until the final report is released I'll be keeping my opinions to myself. I spent almost 20 years in Maritime Hell so this will be hard for me. :waiting:

 
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