Hero inflation

[Pieman]

Very good post Sythen, however I am having trouble with how we apply the word 'hero'.

The Sapper who was killed (I believe I personally knew the person who you are talking about) was doing his job. I also did this job overseas and did many a VPS. I was lucky and I never had a scratch from a VPS, unlike a number of people I worked with.

We readily apply the word 'Hero' to the young Sapper who lost his life in the line of duty. Is it really an appropriate word to apply? In my mind it is not, because 'Hero' is a word that I reserve for someone doing something truly extra-ordinary. The only difference between him and many other Sappers I know, is that he got into a worse situation than others and lost his life clearing the way.

He deserves to be revered with Honor. A fallen soldier shall be remembered and their ultimate sacrifice should be honored. This something my grandfather who fought in WWII taught me when I was young. I never  heard him use the word 'Hero' to describe anyone but Super Man.

Applying the word 'Hero' to this situation, doesn't have the same meaning to me.

As I type this, I think the word 'Honor' or 'Honorable' is a more appropriate word. 'Honored Fallen Soldiers'.....I suppose this is in the realm of personal opinion at this point though.

 

[Tyson Fox]

It's an interesting topic for certain, and it's doubtful any conclusion will be reached. But that's not the point is it?

I joined right out of high school and went away and have done what so far? Boot camp, which really doesn't make one a hero, is the one thing I learned there. Now I sit on a PAT platoon getting paid every day, and that makes me a hero? If anything, I contribute less to society than my siblings; a Teacher, Social Worker, and Nurse, respectively. They make a difference in people's lives everyday, and no one showers them with discounted travel, or cheers them on on certain days.  You could argue that the commitment itself, the time spent away, arduous work and unlimited liability make us heroes. What about Lumberjacks, Railway Workers, Cops, and Miners, who all put themselves in similar situations for no glory? But this is the way the world goes, where everyone has praise heaped upon them because they feel entitled. So yes, Heroes have been inflated.

 

[Sythen]

Pieman, I see what you are saying however I totally disagree with you. Remember, I am not arguing that the word is overused, I am saying it is appropriately used in the context of fallen soldiers. Are you saying we should rename the Highway of Heroes to Highway of Our Honoured Dead? Or something like that? No, these fallen are heroes. Words are defined by common use, and I think the Canadian people have spoken in this regard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3IutxvltBM&feature=related

Shipwreck: Police Officers are also heroes. They put their lives on the line every day, and to put those other jobs in the same category is just insulting. And no, if you're sitting on PAT, you're no better than a civi in my eyes. Finish your trades training and get to a unit, then I will consider you a soldier.

EDIT: Also, Pieman.. Something truly extraordinary? Like travelling several thousand miles from home, to a place where everyone hates you and each step could be your last to try to provide security for these same people who hate you? Not only doing this, but seeing your close friends get hurt, and some killed through out the tour (this particular Hero had been injured earlier and had been given the option to come back to Canada, but instead he came back to his section) and in spite of all this go out every day and do his job? Without hesitating?

 

[mariomike]

What about Lumberjacks, Railway Workers, Cops, and Miners, who all put themselves in similar situations for no glory?

Highlight mine.

I would say the difference is that members of the Emergency Services are excluded from the right to refuse work "if the work refusal would directly endanger the health and safety of another person."

 

[Tyson Fox]

Shipwreck: Police Officers are also heroes. They put their lives on the line every day, and to put those other jobs in the same category is just insulting. And no, if you're sitting on PAT, you're no better than a civi in my eyes. Finish your trades training and get to a unit, then I will consider you a soldier.

So I'm right in saying that not everyone who wears the uniform is a hero?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

How about a "hero" is what you consider it to be??

 

[Pusser]

Shipwreck: Police Officers are also heroes. They put their lives on the line every day, and to put those other jobs in the same category is just insulting. And no, if you're sitting on PAT, you're no better than a civi in my eyes. Finish your trades training and get to a unit, then I will consider you a soldier.

Hmmm.  At first you say that anyone who volunteers and puts on a uniform is hero and then you start to qualify it based on a bar that you have set?  Is it Shipwreck's fault that he's in a PAT platoon?  Has he done something to shirk his responsibilities?  Is he not subject to the same Code of Service Discipline as those you consider to be soldiers?  If he pi$$es in the pickles and gets charged, can he plead that he's no different than a civvy at his trial?  If we're going to hold him to the same disciplinary standard as any other soldier, then I think we can call him a soldier.  He may not be as qualified and as experienced as you, but he's still a soldier nonetheless.

Then you decide that some dangerous work is more worthy of the "hero" label than other dangerous work?  The fact is that more people die in work-related incidents in Canada every year than CF members have died in all of the years we've been involved in Afghanistan (over 1000 in 2005 alone).  The most dangerous line of work in Canada?  Fishing - providing food for the population and sustaining their families (sounds pretty important, if underappreciated to me - almost heroic).  If you ever have a chance to go to Lunenburg, NS sometime, I suggest you check out the fishermen's monument on the waterfront where the names of all the fisherman who've been lost over the years are inscribed in stone.  It's pretty haunting, especially when you note that some family names appear over and over.

It is apparent that you subscribe to a different definition of "hero" than others here, which is fine, but there's no need to crap on others (and get personal about it) because they subscribe to another one.

 

[daftandbarmy]

How about a "hero" is what you consider it to be??

That works for me... and my buddy Idi  ;D

 

[Maxadia]

A hero is simply someone heroic in the eyes of others.  For some, that is people who work in dangerous situations.  For others, it might be someone who jumps into action with their first aid training. For yet another, maybe it's that coach, teacher, or family friend who counselled their kid at just the right time to prevent a suicide.

And yet, not all crossing guards at crosswalks face intense danger each day.  Not all first aid (think applying a band aid) can be considered heroic.  And maybe not all coaches, teachers, family friends, etc end up in a situation where they can help prevent a suicide.

Heroes become heroes when they do heroic action.  It's up to the individual to decide what that heroic action is, and how much of a sacrifice they think it is, not anyone else.

 

[dogger1936]

Death and heroism do not necessarily go hand in hand.  Many a coward has died in action

As it comes down to personal choice as stated by other people; this is where you and I differ on the term.

Having friends who have died overseas in not so heroic situations (IED attack, wrong place wrong time sort of thing) and not a hail of bullets rescuing their friends. My friends and I have discussed the topic over a few beer.

For us regardless of how they died, hail of bullets saving a buddy, IED attack, etc every one of these Canadians volunteered to deploy where death was a good possibility. Each one of them regardless of situation `cashed in` and gave absolutely everything they could in this life to their country.

For me a person who gives all to a cause is a ****ing hero. Each and every soldier who gives their whole existence up; has given all they possibly can.

In regards to cowardice; although I have never seen a person dying in such a situation I`ve seen men freeze under the stress of combat. Absolutely freeze. I was lucky that I never personally experienced it. I would never judge them as all of them were excellent soldiers. Not one of them wanted to freeze and were ashamed after the fact and have to live with that.

Even if one of those guys died he died with my total respect and would be a hero to me. To put yourself into a volunteer army and deploy on behalf of your country and give all is the absolute most a person can give. Regardless of how they died.

War does funny things to people; I`m suffering from PTSD while I was rock solid on the ground in combat. I`ve been there and would never judge another human being in those situations having experienced it. I`m too busy judging myself!

Again a highly personal topic the word hero is.

 

[Pieman]

[Pieman, I see what you are saying however I totally disagree with you. Remember, I am not arguing that the word is overused, I am saying it is appropriately used in the context of fallen soldiers. Are you saying we should rename the Highway of Heroes to Highway of Our Honoured Dead? Or something like that? No, these fallen are heroes. Words are defined by common use, and I think the Canadian people have spoken in this regard

I see your point, and it looks like I could be in the miniority about the use of the word. I just feel that the word "Hero" is overused and thus is loses its orignally intended meaning. This in my mind is a bit of an injustice to those who gave their lives. Also, I would not be comfortable at all if someone refereed to me as a 'hero' because I was doing my job deploying overseas. Lots of people do that, and they are not 'Heros' in my books. They are good soldiers. Oh well, looks like the word is here to stay anyway.

 

[Pusser]

As it comes down to personal choice as stated by other people; this is where you and I differ on the term.

Having friends who have died overseas in not so heroic situations (IED attack, wrong place wrong time sort of thing) and not a hail of bullets rescuing their friends. My friends and I have discussed the topic over a few beer.

For us regardless of how they died, hail of bullets saving a buddy, IED attack, etc every one of these Canadians volunteered to deploy where death was a good possibility. Each one of them regardless of situation `cashed in` and gave absolutely everything they could in this life to their country.

For me a person who gives all to a cause is a ****ing hero. Each and every soldier who gives their whole existence up; has given all they possibly can.

In regards to cowardice; although I have never seen a person dying in such a situation I`ve seen men freeze under the stress of combat. Absolutely freeze. I was lucky that I never personally experienced it. I would never judge them as all of them were excellent soldiers. Not one of them wanted to freeze and were ashamed after the fact and have to live with that.

Even if one of those guys died he died with my total respect and would be a hero to me. To put yourself into a volunteer army and deploy on behalf of your country and give all is the absolute most a person can give. Regardless of how they died.

War does funny things to people; I`m suffering from PTSD while I was rock solid on the ground in combat. I`ve been there and would never judge another human being in those situations having experienced it. I`m too busy judging myself!

Again a highly personal topic the word hero is.

Please note that I'm not judging anyone on their actions in combat or any other dangerous situation for that matter.  My only point was that in my view, living or dying are not necessarily indicators of heroism.  When more than one person does the same thing, the fact that some of them died in the process, does not make them more heroic than the ones who lived. 

 

[CountDC]

Interesting reading.

My 1 cent

The word is over used everyday in my opinion.

Not everyone that joins the military is a hero.  I sure as hell am not a hero for joining and wearing a uniform. 

Me trying to shove my view on it down your throat or vice versa only takes away from one of the causes so many have served to uphold.  We can all form our own and share it while respecting the other persons.

The truest statement in this entire thread is that it is each persons own opinion what is a hero.

 

[Sythen]

Hmmm.  At first you say that anyone who volunteers and puts on a uniform is hero and then you start to qualify it based on a bar that you have set?  Is it Shipwreck's fault that he's in a PAT platoon?  Has he done something to shirk his responsibilities?  Is he not subject to the same Code of Service Discipline as those you consider to be soldiers?  If he pi$$es in the pickles and gets charged, can he plead that he's no different than a civvy at his trial?  If we're going to hold him to the same disciplinary standard as any other soldier, then I think we can call him a soldier.  He may not be as qualified and as experienced as you, but he's still a soldier nonetheless.

Then you decide that some dangerous work is more worthy of the "hero" label than other dangerous work?  The fact is that more people die in work-related incidents in Canada every year than CF members have died in all of the years we've been involved in Afghanistan (over 1000 in 2005 alone).  The most dangerous line of work in Canada?  Fishing - providing food for the population and sustaining their families (sounds pretty important, if underappreciated to me - almost heroic).  If you ever have a chance to go to Lunenburg, NS sometime, I suggest you check out the fishermen's monument on the waterfront where the names of all the fisherman who've been lost over the years are inscribed in stone.  It's pretty haunting, especially when you note that some family names appear over and over.

It is apparent that you subscribe to a different definition of "hero" than others here, which is fine, but there's no need to crap on others (and get personal about it) because they subscribe to another one.

Wow someone needs to learn to think outside the box. A bar that I set? Is he deployable? No, and he is not qualified to do anything but garbage sweeps right now. Its no one's "fault" he's on PAT, but until he is trades qualified I couldn't give two shits about him.

As for dangerous work, can you honestly say you don't see a difference between someone like a Police Officer, Soldier or Fire Fighter and some like a Miner or a Railway Worker? Yes these jobs can be dangerous, but no one gets employment in a diamond mine thinking, 'Wow some day this diamond is gonna make a perfect engagement ring, I am so glad I risk the dangers here to put a smile on a young girl's face.'

Actually know what Pusser, I can't even discuss something like this with someone like you. Pull your head out of your ass and use your head, please. Done now.

 

[dogger1936]

Please note that I'm not judging anyone on their actions in combat or any other dangerous situation for that matter.  My only point was that in my view, living or dying are not necessarily indicators of heroism.  When more than one person does the same thing, the fact that some of them died in the process, does not make them more heroic than the ones who lived.

Absolutely Pusser; I wouldn't suggest that and sorry if it came off that way (interwebs stuff). It's interesting to see others point of views on the topic; and I appreciate yours.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Actually know what Pusser, I can't even discuss something like this with someone like you.

That's because you're talking like a flippin' idiot.......rein yourself in there lad.

 

[2 Cdo]

That's because you're talking like a flippin' idiot.......rein yourself in there lad.

No you're wrong, he's a hero because he wears a uniform!  8)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Alright, don't make me come back there. If I have to stop this car................


Seriously, let's give this a rest shall we?
We're supposed to be grownups.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[daftandbarmy]

It appears that the one thing most people agree on is that you CAN NOT be  a hero if you're sitting on your fat ass, viz"

Campbell explores the theory that important myths from around the world which have survived for thousands of years all share a fundamental structure, which Campbell called the monomyth. In a well-known quote from the introduction to The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell summarized the monomyth:

“ A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.[3] ”

In laying out the monomyth, Campbell describes a number of stages or steps along this journey. The hero starts in the ordinary world, and receives a call to enter an unusual world of strange powers and events (a call to adventure). If the hero accepts the call to enter this strange world, the hero must face tasks and trials (a road of trials), and may have to face these trials alone, or may have assistance. At its most intense, the hero must survive a severe challenge, often with help earned along the journey. If the hero survives, the hero may achieve a great gift (the goal or "boon"), which often results in the discovery of important self-knowledge. The hero must then decide whether to return with this boon (the return to the ordinary world), often facing challenges on the return journey. If the hero is successful in returning, the boon or gift may be used to improve the world (the application of the boon).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

 

[Delaney1986]

EDIT: Also, Pieman.. Something truly extraordinary? Like travelling several thousand miles from home, to a place where everyone hates you and each step could be your last to try to provide security for these same people who hate you? Not only doing this, but seeing your close friends get hurt, and some killed through out the tour (this particular Hero had been injured earlier and had been given the option to come back to Canada, but instead he came back to his section) and in spite of all this go out every day and do his job? Without hesitating?

That was my first reaction too. It's unusual that travelling to a war zone in the pursuit of security for others isn't considered truly extraordinary....
And to the person who referred to his  Grandfather who had served and who never referred to others who served as heroes...yeah...most heroes don't refer to themselves as such, most get embarrassed about being called a hero.

Teachers and lumberjacks etc, don't usually get as much recognition as heroes because they don't voluntarily agree to put their lives at risk for the sake and protection of others. Firefighters, paramedics, police, soldiers all get this sort of recognition because of these reasons. Even people who join to escape family problems or prison are still making a choice to join, knowing what it could entail.

In my opinion if people want to bestow honour on those who have made the ultimate sacrifice by calling them heroes...why should I bristle at that?