High Ranking Police Folk Allegedly Behaving Badly

[mariomike]

So... what would your proposed solution be? What would you suggest be put in place to ensure that police stop prioritizing covering up each other's abuse of authority, and instead focus on actually doing their damned job of promoting justice?

Let's just say Metro's finest always had our backs, and we supported them.

Saved my sorry a$$ on more than one occasion.

We didn't tell them how to "do their damned job", and they didn't tell us how to do ours.

I should leave it at that.

Perhaps even as an incentive, an officer who reports an incident that results in another officer losing their pension gets some proportion of the benefit stripped.

I think this might have unintended second/third order effects…

An incentive for partners to turn each other in for their pension $...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There would be a whole group of bounty hunters, looking for malfeasance amongst their peers, instead of criminals. Spurious accusations and broken careers, trying to get something to stick, to steal a pension. Accusations are forever. Exoneration is fleeting and forgotten. You are no longer a team with a common, honourable role. Just a bunch of conniving individuals eating away at the tenants of law enforcement. Destroying trust and cohesion, driving offenders even deeper underground. Not the type of people you want backing you in a gunfight or even to have a beer with.

 

[lenaitch]

I would hope we never get to the point where an employer can withhold pension entitlements like they can in the US under some circumstances. I made contributions towards my pension every two weeks, as did my employer, which supported a (hopefully) growth-earning fund. The only condition was that I remain gainfully employed for 'x' years. If an employee of a private company w/o a pension plan screws up in a job-related way, should we go after his RSPs?

I mean, it's clear here that you were a part of the problem, and didn't have any qualms turning a blind eye to injustice, as long as you could maintain some thin veneer of plausible deniability.

So... what would your proposed solution be? What would you suggest be put in place to ensure that police stop prioritizing covering up each other's abuse of authority, and instead focus on actually doing their damned job of promoting justice?

"Corners cut" being equated to 'injustice'. Quite a leap.

 

[Weinie]

Legislation needs stronger teeth - continuing liability for offences even after retirement, and even the ability to strip pensions.

Perhaps even as an incentive, an officer who reports an incident that results in another officer losing their pension gets some proportion of the benefit stripped.

1984

 

[mariomike]

I would hope we never get to the point where an employer can withhold pension entitlements like they can in the US under some circumstances.

Even OJ gets his $25,000 monthly payout from the NFL pension.

Under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA), creditors cannot access pensions.

O.J. Simpson could be bringing home $25,000 a month

If O.J. Simpson is granted parole, his pension from the NFL could be upward of $25,00 a month.

www.si.com

 

[brihard]

I would hope we never get to the point where an employer can withhold pension entitlements like they can in the US under some circumstances. I made contributions towards my pension every two weeks, as did my employer, which supported a (hopefully) growth-earning fund. The only condition was that I remain gainfully employed for 'x' years. If an employee of a private company w/o a pension plan screws up in a job-related way, should we go after his RSPs?



"Corners cut" being equated to 'injustice'. Quite a leap.

I’m aware of a Canadian police service where dismissal for misconduct, or conviction for an indictable offense committed while serving, can result in a loss of pension benefits and only a return of contributions. And it has happened.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I’m aware of a Canadian police service where dismissal for misconduct, or conviction for an indictable offense committed while serving, can result in a loss of pension benefits and only a return of contributions. And it has happened.

I wouldn't consider that out of line or unfair. Much better and much different than offering up someone's pension as a bounty.

 

[mariomike]

I’m aware of a Canadian police service where dismissal for misconduct, or conviction for an indictable offense committed while serving, can result in a loss of pension benefits and only a return of contributions. And it has happened.

Doesn't sound like OMERS. ( Toronto Police )
OMERS doesn't care if you got kicked out.

Employment Changes: Understanding Your Options and Changes in Employment | OMERS Members | myOMERS

Gain insights on the options available for your OMERS pension plan when you leave an OMERS employer. Learn about early retirement, commuted value, combining OMERS pensions, transferring benefits, and more.

www.omers.com

Regarding CAF pensions,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/williams-to-lose-rank-but-not-pension-military-1.872287

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Regarding CAF pensions,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/williams-to-lose-rank-but-not-pension-military-1.872287

Yup, nice little nest egg when he gets out. Probably in about another 15 years. Unless he gets sued civily and loses it in a settlement.

 

[mariomike]

Yup, nice little nest egg when he gets out. Probably in about another 15 years. Unless he gets sued civily and loses it in a settlement.

Not sure what the status is of his pension and the civil suit.

Russell Williams’ victim can’t yet go after his pension, court rules

A sexual assault victim suing convicted killer Russell Williams cannot launch a constitutional challenge to go after his military pension, court rules.

www.thestar.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

The balance of probabilities is that the high ranking Toronto police officers nephew was intoxicated and she coersed the lower ranking police officer from her unit (that she called in) to let him leave the scene thus spoiling the investigation and protecting her family.

Make you wonder what other favors she did for her "family in blue".

 

[Jarnhamar]

Let's just say Metro's finest always had our backs, and we supported them.

Treated each other like family.

 

[lenaitch]

I’m aware of a Canadian police service where dismissal for misconduct, or conviction for an indictable offense committed while serving, can result in a loss of pension benefits and only a return of contributions. And it has happened.

Was not aware.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Ottawa Police Service superintendent arrested on sex charges | Globalnews.ca

Police say in a release that the charges stem from allegations that occurred between December 2018 and May 2022 and involve one complainant.

globalnews.ca

Rather then start a new thread I guess I'll just edit the one we have going here. WTF you morons??

A senior Ottawa Police Service officer has been arrested on sex charges.

Ottawa police say Supt. Mark Patterson, who is 53, is charged with sex assault, sex assault including abusing a position of trust, and breach of trust following an investigation by Ontario Provincial Police.
Police say in a release that the charges stem from allegations that occurred between December 2018 and May 2022 and involve one complainant.


The release says the Ottawa Police Service was made aware of the allegations in June 2022, Patterson was immediately suspended, and the OPP was called in to investigate.
Patterson remains suspended and has been released on an undertaking.


Ottawa police Chief Eric Stubbs says the service takes all allegations of sexual assault and harassment very seriously.
“We have no tolerance of either,” Stubbs said in a release Thursday. “It is damaging and debilitating to all those impacted.
“The allegations and charges in this case are very serious and it is important that we respect the judicial process and for all the facts to be heard.”

 

[daftandbarmy]

Classy move...

Video shows Calgary officer pushing over man put in wheelchair, kicking him in the face​

Calgary judge handed Const. Eric Plummer conditional discharge meaning he won't go to jail​

WARNING: This story contains video of a police officer pushing over a man in a wheelchair.

---

A Calgary police officer who pushed over a homeless man — who had been placed in a wheelchair — and kicked him in the face won't spend any time in jail after a judge handed him a conditional discharge.

A Calgary police officer who pushed over a homeless man — who had been placed in a wheelchair — and kicked him in the face won't spend any time in jail after a judge handed him a conditional discharge.

Const. Eric Plummer pleaded guilty to assaulting Vincent James Lavoie on November 10, 2019.

Video entered in court as an exhibit shows Plummer pushing over Lavoie, who hospital security had put in a wheelchair and handcuffed after he became combative. Plummer then stepped on his bare foot and kicked him in the face.

On Tuesday, provincial court Judge John Bascom handed Plummer a conditional discharge meaning a criminal record won't show a conviction if he abides by the conditions for one year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-police-plummer-assault-sentence-wheelchair-1.6684387

 

[brihard]

Classy move...

Video shows Calgary officer pushing over man put in wheelchair, kicking him in the face​

Calgary judge handed Const. Eric Plummer conditional discharge meaning he won't go to jail​

WARNING: This story contains video of a police officer pushing over a man in a wheelchair.

---

A Calgary police officer who pushed over a homeless man — who had been placed in a wheelchair — and kicked him in the face won't spend any time in jail after a judge handed him a conditional discharge.

A Calgary police officer who pushed over a homeless man — who had been placed in a wheelchair — and kicked him in the face won't spend any time in jail after a judge handed him a conditional discharge.

Const. Eric Plummer pleaded guilty to assaulting Vincent James Lavoie on November 10, 2019.

Video entered in court as an exhibit shows Plummer pushing over Lavoie, who hospital security had put in a wheelchair and handcuffed after he became combative. Plummer then stepped on his bare foot and kicked him in the face.

On Tuesday, provincial court Judge John Bascom handed Plummer a conditional discharge meaning a criminal record won't show a conviction if he abides by the conditions for one year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-police-plummer-assault-sentence-wheelchair-1.6684387

Time for him to find a new line of work, IMO.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Time for him to find a new line of work, IMO.

But if history is anything to go by, he'll probably still be there in a year or two.

I would hope we never get to the point where an employer can withhold pension entitlements like they can in the US under some circumstances. I made contributions towards my pension every two weeks, as did my employer, which supported a (hopefully) growth-earning fund. The only condition was that I remain gainfully employed for 'x' years. If an employee of a private company w/o a pension plan screws up in a job-related way, should we go after his RSPs?



"Corners cut" being equated to 'injustice'. Quite a leap.

I personally think Police should always be suspended without pay when there are accusations of misconduct or a serious incident occurs. I also think they should have an insurance system.

I have insurance for my work (pay around $80.00 a month for it) and if I screw up seriously enough that I get held out of service, that's how I get paid, I don't see why Police should be any different?

Plenty of guys I work with have been held out of service, won their case, and gotten paid all their lost potential earnings + kept the insurance money they collected.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

But if history is anything to go by, he'll probably still be there in a year or two.


I personally think Police should always be suspended without pay when there are accusations of misconduct or a serious incident occurs. I also think they should have an insurance system.

I have insurance for my work (pay around $80.00 a month for it) and if I screw up seriously enough that I get held out of service, that's how I get paid, I don't see why Police should be any different?

Plenty of guys I work with have been held out of service, won their case, and gotten paid all their lost potential earnings + kept the insurance money they collected.

Do you think Mr.Fortin and Mr.McDonald should have had their pays cut off??

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Do you think Mr.Fortin and Mr.McDonald should have had their pays cut off??

Yes

Especially if they get access to insurance they have the option of paying for.

However,

Rank & File Police Officers are also Unionized Employees, just like me, so it's a different kettle of fish. They are subject to whatever is in their CBA.

Management gets a different treatment but they also don't have the protections afforded by a CBA.

The CAF could have terminated Fortin and McDonald at any time, it's the CAFs business why it chose not to.

 

[brihard]

But if history is anything to go by, he'll probably still be there in a year or two.


I personally think Police should always be suspended without pay when there are accusations of misconduct or a serious incident occurs. I also think they should have an insurance system.

I have insurance for my work (pay around $80.00 a month for it) and if I screw up seriously enough that I get held out of service, that's how I get paid, I don't see why Police should be any different?

Plenty of guys I work with have been held out of service, won their case, and gotten paid all their lost potential earnings + kept the insurance money they collected.

Define “accusations of misconduct” and serious incident”, please? “Accusations of misconduct” happen constantly, believe it or not there are a lot of people with axes to grind who will make false complaints. Fortunately the introduction of body worn video for police officers should help to improve protection against this- but nonetheless, accusations fly regularly. They are merely accusations until something is proven. As for “serious incident”, what threshold should be met for someone to be suspended without pay?

I’d be alright with suspensions without pay in the case of certain criminal charges being laid - and that does at times happen. But it’s also worth bearing in mind that police work also inherently means a lot of very bad situations and difficult interactions that have potential to go sideways in a way that may look bad but not actually end up being wrongful or misconduct once everything finally shakes out.