PrairieFella
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There is no intent of using existing track for the high speed sections. That needs to built and grade separated. Existing urban track could be used if it's the right gauge.
High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"
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I do not know what I can say to make it easier for you that I didn't already say:
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I'll leave it before you make me dizzy.
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$40 million Churchill railway upgrade applauded by Northern communities
The railway heading north to Churchill will be getting an improvement after a $40 million investment from the federal government.
www.ctvnews.ca
2021 40 MCAD spent by the Feds on Churchill railway.
2025 43 MCAD pledged by the Feds on Churchill railway on top of 35 MCAD pledged by Wab Kinew's NDP.
I would sooner see more of the 60-120 BCAD predicted on the HSR spent on that route.
Or on the Northlander/Polar Bear Express route connecting Toronto to Timmins, Cochrane and Moosonee.
Future Arctic Navigation and Northwestern Atlantic Ports
The looming prospect of trans-Arctic ship navigation has prompted Chinas ship industry to develop co...
maritime-executive.com
Floating the idea of a James Bay port
By NICK STEWART Momentum is building as key regional leaders examine the possibility of a Northern Ontario James Bay Coast sea port.
www.northernontariobusiness.com
Or either of these two projects
Western Energy Corridor
Western Energy Corridor is designed for long-distance pipelines and high-voltage DC powerlines, allowing for expansion of Canada’s energy resources in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Moving natural gas and / or oil provides an economic base with large-scale hydro power and other renewables movi
www.westernenergycorridor.ca
NeeStaNan (all of us) - Nee Sta Nan (all of us)
neestanan.ca
Oil, gas, wheat, canola, potash, sulfur, coal, uranium are all more reliable "passengers" than commuting civil servants.
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Our expert already affirmed that.
PrairieFella
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We can walk about chew bubblegum too. Both should be explored. With the incoming steel tariffs now is the time to invest in commercial and commuter rail to keep our steel industry afloat as a matter of national security.$40 million Churchill railway upgrade applauded by Northern communities
The railway heading north to Churchill will be getting an improvement after a $40 million investment from the federal government.
2021 40 MCAD spent by the Feds on Churchill railway.
2025 43 MCAD pledged by the Feds on Churchill railway on top of 35 MCAD pledged by Wab Kinew's NDP.
I would sooner see more of the 60-120 BCAD predicted on the HSR spent on that route.
Or on the Northlander/Polar Bear Express route connecting Toronto to Timmins, Cochrane and Moosonee.
Future Arctic Navigation and Northwestern Atlantic Ports
The looming prospect of trans-Arctic ship navigation has prompted Chinas ship industry to develop co...Floating the idea of a James Bay port
By NICK STEWART Momentum is building as key regional leaders examine the possibility of a Northern Ontario James Bay Coast sea port.
Or either of these two projects
Western Energy Corridor
Western Energy Corridor is designed for long-distance pipelines and high-voltage DC powerlines, allowing for expansion of Canada’s energy resources in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Moving natural gas and / or oil provides an economic base with large-scale hydro power and other renewables moviNeeStaNan (all of us) - Nee Sta Nan (all of us)
Oil, gas, wheat, canola, potash, sulfur, coal, uranium are all more reliable "passengers" than commuting civil servants.
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Not if you're trying to destroy those industries and do million dollar favours. If... that were the case, but that doesn't happen in Canada.$40 million Churchill railway upgrade applauded by Northern communities
The railway heading north to Churchill will be getting an improvement after a $40 million investment from the federal government.
2021 40 MCAD spent by the Feds on Churchill railway.
2025 43 MCAD pledged by the Feds on Churchill railway on top of 35 MCAD pledged by Wab Kinew's NDP.
I would sooner see more of the 60-120 BCAD predicted on the HSR spent on that route.
Or on the Northlander/Polar Bear Express route connecting Toronto to Timmins, Cochrane and Moosonee.
Future Arctic Navigation and Northwestern Atlantic Ports
The looming prospect of trans-Arctic ship navigation has prompted Chinas ship industry to develop co...Floating the idea of a James Bay port
By NICK STEWART Momentum is building as key regional leaders examine the possibility of a Northern Ontario James Bay Coast sea port.
Or either of these two projects
Western Energy Corridor
Western Energy Corridor is designed for long-distance pipelines and high-voltage DC powerlines, allowing for expansion of Canada’s energy resources in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Moving natural gas and / or oil provides an economic base with large-scale hydro power and other renewables moviNeeStaNan (all of us) - Nee Sta Nan (all of us)
Oil, gas, wheat, canola, potash, sulfur, coal, uranium are all more reliable "passengers" than commuting civil servants.
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My understanding is that the more frequent the stops, or the larger the number of population centres served, the less the advantage HSR has over conventional rail.
We might as well be using a Lamborghini to deliver milk.
The only system that really seems to work is the Hub and Spoke with a very small number of hubs and long stretches of uninterrupted rail in between. That means that the trip experience becomes very similar to taking a plane, or a ferry. You first of all have to get to the hub and then transfer. And then you need to get from the hub closest to your destination to your destination. Car rental?
PrairieFella
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Hub to public transit usually.
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You're on a roll today my Scottish friend
Yup, and the distances in the proposed Canadian HSR seem to be in line with the sorts of distances we see elsewhere with successful HSR. Toronto - Peterborough - Ottawa; no friggin about with Cobourg, Trenton, Kingston, Brockville, Smiths Falls, etc. part of the challenge will be getting the HSR service close enough to city cores that we as potential passengers will consider it usable. That’s what I’m trying to wrap my head around- given that obviously most of the route and all high speed segments will need dedicated trackage, can access to city centers be achieved using any of what already exists, accepting that that means that for that small portion of the travel, high speed isn’t achievable?
I don’t know, so I asked. It’s entirely possible (maybe even likely) that that’s a complete no go on that option, potentially for reasons I can’t even think of. I’m hoping @Humphrey Bogart comes back with insight on that specific point. I know he knows his stuff.
true, just have to electrify those portions of the trackage. But they would require a dedicated line otherwise freight traffic would screw up the schedule as it does now with VIA
public transit. Every European city I have been in has an extensive combination of buses, trams, subways and interurban rail even in the smaller towns. North America spent decades chasing the American dream of cars; everyone with their own wheels and ripped up all of the interurban infrastructure that our primitive forefathers had built. There were trains everywhere, even as I found out this year from OTTAWA to Parry Sound. There was a street car system that went up and down the Niagara gorge serving both sides of the border. Toronto to Niagara Falls was a choice of ferries to St. Catharines or Queenston and then rail from there. Everything was ripped up and the railways disposed of the land so they couldn't be re-built today without enormous expense to purchase the rights of way. So in order to make high speed work you have to address the low speed as well. I would be tempted to add one more stop (near Perth for instance) to provide a link to the cities on the 401 corridor
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You're missing a key difference. Railways in Italy and elsewhere in Europe are Government-owned/Nationalized. Their networks are also designed and optimized for passenger as opposed to freight traffic. Freight-trains in Europe can be no longer than approx 2500ft by regulation. The freight trains we run here are 10,000ft+ and can be up to 14,000ft in length.
I think it's viable, not a believer that it makes financial sense to do so and costs would never ever be recouped. The major issue is the Government-owned passenger rail company, VIA, operates almost exclusively on a private freight railway's right-of-way.
In a perfect World, the Government would upgrade that right-of-way to provide a higher level of service for its corridor service than it currently offers: No at-grade crossings, a lot of it is already double track but you could add additional sidings as required to facilitate train-meets, etc.
Canada had a "high-speed" train in the 60s and 70s called the Turbotrain which achieved speeds of 140mph but was restricted to 95mph due to the amount of Public and private crossings on the right-of-way between Montreal and Toronto which is 1000+ in number.
I personally think Canada needs to make what it has better before it starts any massive infrastructure project. VIA Rail is an absolute soup sandwich as is a bunch of the regional/urban commuter lines. Metrolinx and GO are run like absolute garbage as is OC Transport. Improve what we have and make it actually work well, then build from there.
Thanks for that, much appreciated.
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So should they be looking at elevated crossings v. level ones?
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When GO can start making money in the most populous part of this route, I may want to hear more, but certainly not right now.
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And there again the Euros have an advantage over us. Higher population densities than us at the hubs so they can afford a denser and more frequent local public transport system.
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At one level I am a fan of the notion of High Speed Rail, but when I see 10 year's worth of private investment set aside in favour of a vanity project financed with public money we don't have, because we turned our back on money making ventures, well then I am afraid you are going to have to work awfully hard to get me over the hump.
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You want either an overpass or an underpass. You don't need to do every single one but certainly the public crossings through urban areas should all be level grade with an overpass or underpass for vehicle/pedestrian traffic.
That Turbotrain I mentioned earlier had an accident with a truck on its very first trip might I add.
Off the Rails | The Walrus
How Canada fell from leader to laggard in high-speed rail, and why that needs to change
thewalrus.ca
That event, witnessed by a large gallery of press, is attributed with turning Canada off from pursuing HSR. Crazy to think we were at one time, a leader in railway technology. We still are a leader in the freight-rail industry. Our two Class 1 railroads are the toast of the industry and set the gold standard globally.
PrairieFella
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Is that still true in spite of the likes of Krell and Harrison? When I worked for CP I had to shake my head when they ripped out the auto switches in the Winnipeg yard to save money, but now you have to hand throw switches to get across...very efficient.
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