High-tech bomb found in Afghanistan raises concerns

[GAP]

High-tech bomb found in Afghanistan raises concerns
Monday, June 11, 2007. 11:09pm (AEST)
Article Link

A sophisticated bomb similar to types used by insurgents in Iraq has been found in the Afghan capital, Kabul.

The device, known as a shaped charge, can penetrate tank armour.

A spokeswoman for the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, Colonel Maria Carl, says it is a worrying development.

"We actually have had two events in which we have recovered these so called EFP's or shaped charges," she said.

"The first one, however, was not really very sophisticated, it was actually quite crude.

"The more recent one was a little bit more sophisticated and we're concerned about any threat it posed to our forces and also to civilians."
End

 

[KevinB]

An EFP is a bit more than a shaped charge.

 

[vonGarvin]

Agreed, I-6.  I guess since the MSM think that the LAV 3 is a tank, then they totally missed the fact that Shaped Charges have been around "for a while".

(eg: I bet they don't realise that the 'vaunted' RPG-7 uses a shaped charge!)

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Or the difference in manufacturing and technology skill required to construct an EFP/Self Forging Fragment vice a "typical" shaped charge cone.

Panzerfaust, anyone?

 

[McG]

EFPs have been around for a while too.  The Soviets had them for off-route mines & tthe Soviets have been gone for a while.  Some of the mines in Bosnia used EFPs to attack hull bottoms aswell.

Imporved understanding & technology may mean that ballistic properties of EFPs are getting better.  Not new though,

 

[vonGarvin]

Or the difference in manufacturing and technology skill required to construct an EFP/Self Forging Fragment vice a "typical" shaped charge cone.

Panzerfaust, anyone?

I'll go one older: Faustpatrone 30 (forebearer of the Panzerfaust 30, not as powerful).
Point is still there.

TRIVIA: Name first location/battle of first use of a shaped charge in battle.

 

[McG]

I believe it was Eben Emael in order to gain lodgment into the fortress.

 

[vonGarvin]

I believe it was Eben Emael in order to gain lodgment into the fortress.

Correct (and fast!).  Point being, that was in May, 1940.  Shaped Charges (NOT EFPs) have been around since WWII. 

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

And back to the old standby to counter those who decry the sky is falling because the bad guys have bombs, the Leopards are uesless because of AT weapons, the LAV IIIs are useless because of AT weapons et al ad nauseum (I've said this before):

If you put a big enough bomb under anything you will destroy it.  If the Taliban could tunnel underneath KAF and plant enough explosives, they could destroy the whole base.

 

[vonGarvin]

If the Taliban could tunnel underneath KAF and plant enough explosives, they could destroy the whole base.

Oh, great.  Now we have to stand up the old Tunnelling Regiments to counter mine the whole lot 

 

[tank recce]

If the Taliban could tunnel underneath KAF and plant enough explosives, they could destroy the whole base.

OpSec! OpSec!!  ;D

 

[GAP]

A further article I ran across

'Shaped charge' roadside bomb found in Afghanistan
By Abdul Waheed Wafa Published: June 11, 2007
Article Link

KABUL: Afghan security forces found a sophisticated roadside bomb of the type used in Iraq for the first time in the center of the capital, Kabul, and it was primed to hit a convoy of high-ranking Afghan officials, an Afghan intelligence official said Monday.

A NATO spokeswoman, Lieutenant Colonel Maria Carl, confirmed that the type of bomb, called an explosively formed projectile, or a shaped charge, was found in Kabul in May.

The bomb contained 16 kilos of explosive and was set to be detonated by remote control from up to one kilometer away, the intelligence official said, asking not to be named because of the secret nature of his job. The bomb was found in the western part of Kabul, set beside the road probably to target a convoy of Afghan high ranking officials or international forces, he said.

The Afghan official declined to say what the origin of the bomb was or when it was found. Roadside bombs with deadly shaped charges have been used frequently in Iraq, and military officials there have said the sophisticated bombs have their origin in neighboring Iran. Afghanistan has seen an increase in the use of roadside bombs in the last 18 months but most have been made from remote controlled anti-tank mines laid under or beside the road.

Colonel Carl said it was the second such shaped charge found in Afghanistan, and that it was a little more sophisticated that the first. The first one was found in April in western Afghanistan, a region that borders on Iran.
More on link

 

[KevinB]

One issue with EFP's as opposed to a shape charge projectile is that the chemical warhead is deleivered once the warhead strikes the tgt - using the shaped charge to create a molten jetc of plasma.  The EFP is a hypersonic molten piece of metal and is much more difficult to deflect that a shaped charge.

As CSA-105 pointed out the sky is falling routine is a little bit premature as anyone can truly biuld a bigger bomb.

Ever since Caveman Bob picked up a rock to counter Caveman Jim's stick - countless enemies have altered their attack measures to try to leveraged an advantage.

 

[Good2Golf]

Or the difference in manufacturing and technology skill required to construct an EFP/Self Forging Fragment vice a "typical" shaped charge cone.

Panzerfaust, anyone?

Okay, CSA, I'll call you out..."Peter Rabbit and the Panzerfaust" (with pictures) in "Radio Chatter" or you'll have to retract your query! 

G2G

 

[McG]

Shaped Charges (NOT EFPs) have been around since WWII. 

They were not used, but the EFP was being developed during WW II.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misznay-Schardin_effect

 

[George Wallace]

Well, I guess now we will have to really start giving our Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Recce a workout.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As always, the nature and behaviour of the explosive in an IED tends to be less dangerous than the method of initiation. If they can get that right all the time, then they don't need much of a bang to cause real problems. And therein lies the OPSEC!

 

[Big Red]

Was only a matter of time before they shoed up, I was expecting them to be in Afghan a long time ago.