Hillier says Forces in 'war for talent' to boost ranks - CP

[QV]

No, not by itself.  But if bonuses help retention and recruiting then manpower will be up and tour burnout down.

 

[Old Sweat]

For whatever it is worth, and free advice is usually worth what it costs the recipient, on Friday I attended a briefing for the Ottawa Gunners by our Colonel Commandant. LGen Leslie was in attendance for part of it and stayed to take questions. The subject of tour lengths, time away from home, retention, etc came up. He is a very smart guy and he admitted he doesn't have all (or many) of the answers. However, he did say that the army is willing to look at any well thought out solution to fix part or all of the dilemma.

 

[Booked_Spice]

To be Honest, If Hubby were to call it quits, money wouldn't help. It would build me a new Barn, however if he is not here to build it, then what good is the money for? It is hard enough when he is gone however long.... MOney can never replace the time he has spent away from his kids and everything that he has missed and will miss for his call of duty.

 

[rifleman]

But it is frustrating to see so many people who have great experience and leadership throwing in the towel. This doesn't help matters, it makes it worse.

That is probably the most frustrating, being told there is no end in sight. Some solutions;
-Prioritize work and get rid of unneccessary crap.
-Shorten courses by "no-training" portions, instead of increasing the training day.
-Utilize re-coursing, instead of reteaching evenings and weekends for 1 person.
-Empty the reserves of every person willing to be "full time".
-Actually make the attempt to meet QOL issues instead of saying if you don't like it "get out".

Signing bonuses are short term solutions and I don't think really address the issue. Just a few suggestions here

 

[aesop081]

-Prioritize work and get rid of unneccessary crap.

So it begs to question...what crap ?

-Actually make the attempt to meet QOL issues instead of saying if you don't like it "get out".

Please tell what QOL issue has yet to be resolved

 

[rifleman]

I guess one man's crap is another man's bread and butter, however I do not concede to there is no end in sight. I see crap as, doing things that do not contribute to the mission. Things that extend the work day so even when you get to sleep in your own bed, thats all you do sleep.

As for QOL, I've seen plenty of people being told to get out, if they don't want to get posted, before anyone even knows why? I've personally gone to bat for troops recommending that we do not accept their release and instead consider other avenues, just to have highers blame the troop for trying to snivel out of a posting.

CDN Aviator, I guess the real question is "whats your solution?" or are you going to continue to just be part of the "no solution"?

 

[aesop081]

As for QOL, I've seen plenty of people being told to get out, if they don't want to get posted,

Boo freaking ooh !!

You will NEVER be able to please everyone when it comes to postings. People dont want to move and then turn around and complain they dont get promoted. Schools have to be staffed and personel has to be rotated in and out of then schools so that experience gets passed on beyond the unit level. Out of trade postings have to be staffed as well.....

CDN Aviator, I guess the real question is "whats your solution?" or are you going to continue to just be part of the "no solution"?

My solution is well beyond the control  of the CF..........

 

[rifleman]

Boo freaking ooh !!

You will NEVER be able to please everyone when it comes to postings. People dont want to move and then turn around and complain they dont get promoted. Schools have to be staffed and personel has to be rotated in and out of then schools so that experience gets passed on beyond the unit level. Out of trade postings have to be staffed as well.....

no you won't be able to please everyone, but the default shouldn't be 'Boo freaking ooh !!' or 'Get out'

My solution is well beyond the control  of the CF..........

Well, pray tell what is it? I for one only worry about things I can possibly change and never give up. I definitely don't use 'hope' or 'ignore it and it will go away" as COAs

 

[aesop081]

Well, pray tell what is it?

Nothing short of a medium-term operational pause concurrent with a significant ( and steady for several years) increase in the budget.

I definitely don't use 'hope' or 'ignore it and it will go away" as COAs

If i used those as COAs i would end up as a smoking hole in the ground.

 

[rifleman]

Nothing short of a medium-term operational pause concurrent with a significant ( and steady for several years) increase in the budget.

okay realistically, whats a solution?

 

[X-mo-1979]

-Prioritize work and get rid of unneccessary crap.

I agree.Especially during redundant workup training.We are the best trained army in the world so they say,yet we train as if were a army of conscripts IMHO.

-Shorten courses by "no-training" portions, instead of increasing the training day.

I don't agree.The reason some people get out totally is due to frustration at people getting by on courses by the skin of their teeth,while you work your butt off....then he gets promoted ahead of you cause he is a social butterfly.

-Utilize re-coursing, instead of reteaching evenings and weekends for 1 person.

Utilize releases.Everyone wants something to be proud in...ever been in a section at work with 20 years worth of bottom thirds?
Makes your life busy.

-Empty the reserves of every person willing to be "full time".
-

Again I have to agree.Maybe making it sorta like a casting call once per year and CT En mass.Anyone who wants a CT come to certain central locations,rations and quarters while their files and medicals are done and given new capbadges and jobs on the spot.Sort of like a "recruitment drive" for reservist to CT once a year.

-Actually make the attempt to meet QOL issues instead of saying if you don't like it "get out".

QOL is just too hard to deal with I believe. However QOL could be improved if we look at HOW LONG we train and realise it's redundant thus increasing QOL en mass for the troops by spending more time with family's.
Maple guardian was a waste of time after doing southern bear. 45 days away from my family where I learned nothing/my troops learned nothing.

 

[aesop081]

okay realistically, whats a solution?

I know its unrealistic unfortunately. But simply offering bonuses will not help in the long run. QOL is, IMHO, setteled. Your comments about postings will never go away. I know for a fact that career managers do everything they can to accomodate members but a line has to be drawn somehwere. I dont know what the solution is, i know there is one but its not going to happen anytime soon.......

 

[rifleman]

Sorry now I'm lost, did you not just quote the answer to the question your asking?  ???

The point is that I don't have control over the government, and typically a slow down in operations will cause a slow down in funding. We only look at updating and acquiring new gear when we are using the old crap. I can, however, affect changes at my level, with support from higher. That is what I consider realistic

 

[MedTechStudent]

The point is that I don't have control over the government, and typically a slow down in operations will cause a slow down in funding. We only look at updating and acquiring new gear when we are using the old crap. I can, however, affect changes at my level, with support from higher. That is what I consider realistic

Ok gotcha! 

 

[rifleman]

I don't agree.The reason some people get out totally is due to frustration at people getting by on courses by the skin of their teeth,while you work your butt off....then he gets promoted ahead of you cause he is a social butterfly.

Utilize releases.Everyone wants something to be proud in...ever been in a section at work with 20 years worth of bottom thirds?
Makes your life busy.

I was refering to courses that should take 10 weeks, being squished into 7, instead of getting rid of a PO (a little risk management there but better than trying to do it all and acomplishing nothing) Basically I'm talking about Mobilization MOSIDs. As for the bottom third, there is always a bottom third. I think I've done quite well.... ;D Afterall, someone has to make the future Generals look good.

Again I have to agree.Maybe making it sorta like a casting call once per year and CT En mass.Anyone who wants a CT come to certain central locations,rations and quarters while their files and medicals are done and given new capbadges and jobs on the spot. Sort of like a "recruitment drive" for reservist to CT once a year.

I'm not saying make them reg force, just offer contracts, keep their cap badges, who cares

QOL is just too hard to deal with I believe. However QOL could be improved if we look at HOW LONG we train and realise it's redundant thus increasing QOL en mass for the troops by spending more time with family's.
Maple guardian was a waste of time after doing southern bear. 45 days away from my family where I learned nothing/my troops learned nothing.

When I speak of QOL, I'm not thinking about the QOL program, just things that make people enjoy what they do. Its about learning what works for each individual and making the attempt. For me, a signing bonus means nothing (well except a new house or truck), red tape removal is most important for me.

 

[God56]

I'd say that its getting more tempting for me and a few of my friends, at one point all wanted to go reg force once we were done school, now two are trying out for the rcmp because they pay higher and you don't have to worry about deployments as much. At first I figured good  if you just wanted the money then your better off doing your own thing. Now I personally I was having second thoughts just because I'd never get to see any of my family. I'll probably still go reg force just because the army got into my head before I even knew what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, at the young age of 16. Its just tempting to go into a civie job even though all I'd do and still do is day dream about the army when I'm in a boring class.

 

[rifleman]

I'd say that its getting more tempting for me and a few of my friends, at one point all wanted to go reg force once we were done school, now two are trying out for the rcmp because they pay higher and you don't have to worry about deployments as much. At first I figured good  if you just wanted the money then your better off doing your own thing. Now I personally I was having second thoughts just because I'd never get to see any of my family. I'll probably still go reg force just because the army got into my head before I even knew what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, at the young age of 16. Its just tempting to go into a civie job even though all I'd do and still do is day dream about the army when I'm in a boring class.

Well come on in, do a stint, then decide if its for you. You'll never know until you try. But finish school first and remember dope is for dopes

 

[Harris]

Harris's solutions to a happy and carefree CF:

If you won't deploy get out
If you won't accept a posting (without a very good compassionate reason) get out
If you want to join off the street you get a uniform on your back and your on your BMQ within 6 weeks
If you want to CT then you're in your new Unit within 8 weeks
Once you complete the checklist for deployment then you go home to train/prepare until the departure date (Of course the checklist has to be reasonable and only contain enough Ex's to enable the Team to learn/bond on each Ex.  Once the bonds are formed and the learning is minimal, checklist complete)
If your injured while on duty or implied duty (Reserve PT for an example) you get %100 coverage until either you go back to work %100 and/or you get a pension because you can't work
If your entitled to a pension, it is decided within 6 months of final assessments/recommendations
PER's are not popularity contests and are actually used to rate someone
Promotions/postings are based on PER's and the needs of the service
If you mess up your job, you are held to task and issues are not swept under the rug
Desk flyers must deploy at least once every four years

All of the above is based on things I've seen in a mostly Reserve world with some exposure to the Reg processes.

 

[MedTechStudent]

If you won't deploy get out
If you won't accept a posting (without a very good compassionate reason) get out

Whoa, I didn't know that was even an option.  You can really decline a posting? 

What other job can you refuse your responsibilities?  Without getting fired of course?

 

[Kiwi99]

I agree with Harris on pretty much all he said.  Except rather than 'get out' if you turn down a deployment, you get kicked out.  Unless you have a bloody good reason. 

After discussing this with my peers there appears to be only one answer, and many won't like it because it is not why we joined the forces - and that is money!  Soldiers live for the moment.  If you tella guy that you will give him $5000 if he satys in for another 5 years then he will take the five grand and sign the line.  He won 't even consider the five years, he will just see cash.  As for all the old fellas who still think people join for the pride of service an all that carry on, well, hate to break it to ya, but new troops don't give a crap about that.  they want a paycheck and nothing else. Ask them why they joined and that is the answer.

As for rotating returning soldiers through the schools as inst to pass on knowledge, it is a good idea.  But you also have to rotate the leadership of those schools or the inst will be screwed. Ask any soldier that has been sent to a school after a tour.