Hockey
- Thread starter Jarnhamar
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The league is losing money. The NHL needs to adjust salaries and finances to meet the reality of their situation (They've been losing money each season, millions, for several years now). The players want to keep their salaries, averaging 1.8 million a pop. NHL says no. Players say NHL is just trying to shaft them.
My prediciton: NHL goes belly up, and the a new CHL is born. Modest salaries herald the return of the Winnipeg Jets.
My prediciton: NHL goes belly up, and the a new CHL is born. Modest salaries herald the return of the Winnipeg Jets.
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I am on the players side on this . The owners what to shaft the players . They may be Hockey Players but they are entertainers at the same time . No one complains when Julia Roberts makes 50 million per movie as the most payed actress in the US . But a hockey player who could lose his whole career in a game if he is injured bad enough doesn't deserve his salary nonsense . Its not like the owners are going to take that extra money from the players and lower ticket prices not a chance there . The owners are going to put that extra into there own pockets . Here is hoping that it ends soon .
Cheers
Cheers
D
dutchie
Guest
I can see both sides points.
Owners stance:The owners are losing a lot of money. The NHL is the only major north american sports league without a salary cap or luxury tax (AKA 'soft cap'). Player's salaries currently eat up an average of 75% of total revenue. Baseball, Football, and Basketball are all about 53%. The current NHL proposal (as reported) would bring players salaries down to that level. The problem is that only a small percentage of NHL teams (ie New York, Boston, Detriot, etc) can afford to compete for the top players. The rest can't afford the top guys, draw a smaller crowd, draw less revenue, don't win, and lose money. The labour cost in hockey (players salaries) will almost certainly cause some smaller teams to go under or relocate to bigger markets (ie-Calgary, Edmonton, Minnesota).
Players stance:The owners lack of self control has created this situation. It is not the players responsiblility to stop the owners from paying them too much. The players ask for more money, but it's the owners who decide to pay it. The players have stated they want the open market/individual owners to determine each player's worth (through contract negotiations) not some arbitrary salry cap number. They state that the market will keep the salaries in check.
I side with the owners on this one. Yes, it is their own financial mismanagment and irresponsibility that has caused the problem, but the game will suffer and is suffering in the markets I care about (Canadian), and I fear we will end up with 2 or maybe 3 Canadian teams in ten years if the cap is not in place. A more even playing field will result in smaller teams being able to compete with bigger ones more so than they are right now. (Go, Canucks, Go!)
On another note, I hope the season gets shitcanned so that the southern US teams go tits-up. The fans don't really like hockey anyhow, and who in my opinion disgrace the game with their stupid names, glowing pucks, moronic mascots, etc. Get rid of all teams in Florida, Nashville, Columbus, Dallas, Anaheim, and San Jose. The game will be better as there isn't enough NHL caliber players to fill all of the team rosters. That's why it's so friggin boring to watch the regular season. Seriously, have you seen those tards in San Jose with their "Shark Attack" thing? The fans make their hands come together like shark jaws.....disgusting.
Carry on, rant endeth.
Owners stance:The owners are losing a lot of money. The NHL is the only major north american sports league without a salary cap or luxury tax (AKA 'soft cap'). Player's salaries currently eat up an average of 75% of total revenue. Baseball, Football, and Basketball are all about 53%. The current NHL proposal (as reported) would bring players salaries down to that level. The problem is that only a small percentage of NHL teams (ie New York, Boston, Detriot, etc) can afford to compete for the top players. The rest can't afford the top guys, draw a smaller crowd, draw less revenue, don't win, and lose money. The labour cost in hockey (players salaries) will almost certainly cause some smaller teams to go under or relocate to bigger markets (ie-Calgary, Edmonton, Minnesota).
Players stance:The owners lack of self control has created this situation. It is not the players responsiblility to stop the owners from paying them too much. The players ask for more money, but it's the owners who decide to pay it. The players have stated they want the open market/individual owners to determine each player's worth (through contract negotiations) not some arbitrary salry cap number. They state that the market will keep the salaries in check.
I side with the owners on this one. Yes, it is their own financial mismanagment and irresponsibility that has caused the problem, but the game will suffer and is suffering in the markets I care about (Canadian), and I fear we will end up with 2 or maybe 3 Canadian teams in ten years if the cap is not in place. A more even playing field will result in smaller teams being able to compete with bigger ones more so than they are right now. (Go, Canucks, Go!)
On another note, I hope the season gets shitcanned so that the southern US teams go tits-up. The fans don't really like hockey anyhow, and who in my opinion disgrace the game with their stupid names, glowing pucks, moronic mascots, etc. Get rid of all teams in Florida, Nashville, Columbus, Dallas, Anaheim, and San Jose. The game will be better as there isn't enough NHL caliber players to fill all of the team rosters. That's why it's so friggin boring to watch the regular season. Seriously, have you seen those tards in San Jose with their "Shark Attack" thing? The fans make their hands come together like shark jaws.....disgusting.
Carry on, rant endeth.
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I'll buy that.
I also Understand the player point. The owner never should have let it get that far out of control
I like the Idea of a smaller league. It would creat better teams and better Hockey. Like the Special forces Only the best would be on the ice.
I also Understand the player point. The owner never should have let it get that far out of control
I like the Idea of a smaller league. It would creat better teams and better Hockey. Like the Special forces Only the best would be on the ice.
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A rookies salary was about $800,000 - $1.2 million, for only one season, they don't even have to play a game in the NHL, just on that teams farm club and still earn that money. If you look at someone like Sydney Crosby (for those that don't know, he's the next Wayne Gretzky), he'd be given at least a 3 year deal worth somewhere in the range of 3.5 - 5 million (just a guess). If he gets injured on his first shift in the NHL he's still on contract and still gets his money.
I can't take a side, not because both make points but both are so stupid...we're where we are now in this sport because there was a salary cap this whole time which owners ignored, now they want to play fair and the players say no. All I know for sure is that if I was a player, I'd play for the love of the game, not how much I got payed to play the game. Friend of mine said "They should play to be paid, not paid to play"
By the way the lockout they say (they = The Score Hockey Analysts) could last up to 18 months.
lol..bring back the Nordiques...can you imagine their salary if they brought back their old team with their new salaries (Forsberg, Sundin, Sakic, Roy...the list goes on)...
I can't take a side, not because both make points but both are so stupid...we're where we are now in this sport because there was a salary cap this whole time which owners ignored, now they want to play fair and the players say no. All I know for sure is that if I was a player, I'd play for the love of the game, not how much I got payed to play the game. Friend of mine said "They should play to be paid, not paid to play"
By the way the lockout they say (they = The Score Hockey Analysts) could last up to 18 months.
lol..bring back the Nordiques...can you imagine their salary if they brought back their old team with their new salaries (Forsberg, Sundin, Sakic, Roy...the list goes on)...
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Gee thanks. Well, Shane Doan is the Captain of the disgraceful Phoenix Coyotes. I'm not sure he'd like us to go tits up...
What do you base that on? Hockey is huge here in Phoenix, and in many of these Cities, taxpayers (fans) have approved subsidized or paid-for arenas.
Now glowing pucks we can agree on....
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Caeser said:
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the players on the team aren't from the area they play for...it's where they end up, so saying there isn't enough NHL caliber in those areas was seriously stupid since they're obviously in the NHL, and they were all in the same entry draft, and all looked at by NHL scouts. Everything else you ranted is obviously a matter of opinion because someone could pick apart your favourite team no problem, it's a teams "stupid" traditions that gets their fans hyped to win, you think everyone liked "GO LEAFS GO" when it started, but now you hear it in every NHL building when the leafs are in town...
And in case you forgot, not only is Shane Doan the Captain of the Coyotes, he scored the game winning goal v.s. Finland to win Canada the gold...
::EDIT:: Also about that salary cap comment in my previous post, I can't remember where I heard that but it's wrong...sorry about that
D
dutchie
Guest
Shane Doan can play for another team. It's not the players like Doan that will lose their job, it's the fringe players like Feder Federov that won't play. The league is full of players that wouldn't make the worst NHL team 10-15 yrs ago.
Re:"What do you base that on? Hockey is huge here in Phoenix"Did I mention Phoenix? Having said that, I could care less if the 'Desert Dogs' played another NHL game, but I can appreciate that you do. The game, fans, and atmosphere just isn;t the same in Phoenix as it is in New York, Boston, Minni, or any Canadian city. The NHL would be better off with the teams that existed pre-expansion (pre-Sharks). Less teams, less job positions for players, more competition for jobs, better quality of play, and more entertainment. If Hockey belongs in any of the cities I've mentioned (or any other for that matter), then the fans will come back after the lockout. If the lockout kills the season and the fans don't come back next year, so sad, too bad.
Re:"What do you base that on? Hockey is huge here in Phoenix"Did I mention Phoenix? Having said that, I could care less if the 'Desert Dogs' played another NHL game, but I can appreciate that you do. The game, fans, and atmosphere just isn;t the same in Phoenix as it is in New York, Boston, Minni, or any Canadian city. The NHL would be better off with the teams that existed pre-expansion (pre-Sharks). Less teams, less job positions for players, more competition for jobs, better quality of play, and more entertainment. If Hockey belongs in any of the cities I've mentioned (or any other for that matter), then the fans will come back after the lockout. If the lockout kills the season and the fans don't come back next year, so sad, too bad.
D
dutchie
Guest
Skura:
Re:"I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the players on the team aren't from the area they play for...it's where they end up, so saying there isn't enough NHL caliber in those areas was seriously stupid":uhhhh, did you actually read my post? I said there are too many teams, and not enough real NHL caliber players to fill the positions, so we get players that really shouldn't be here playing. At no point did I say that only Southern US teams have these poor players. Oh, and don't call me stupid again please.
re:"And in case you forgot, not only is Shane Doan the Captain of the Coyotes, he scored the game winning goal v.s. Finland to win Canada the gold..."- and I hope he plays for a Canadian or good US team soon, where he will be appreciated by knowlegable fans.
Re:"I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the players on the team aren't from the area they play for...it's where they end up, so saying there isn't enough NHL caliber in those areas was seriously stupid":uhhhh, did you actually read my post? I said there are too many teams, and not enough real NHL caliber players to fill the positions, so we get players that really shouldn't be here playing. At no point did I say that only Southern US teams have these poor players. Oh, and don't call me stupid again please.
re:"And in case you forgot, not only is Shane Doan the Captain of the Coyotes, he scored the game winning goal v.s. Finland to win Canada the gold..."- and I hope he plays for a Canadian or good US team soon, where he will be appreciated by knowlegable fans.
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Well, of course it's not the same in Phoenix as it is in Toronto - it's only been here a few years. It is not reasonable to expect a sport to come to a whole new demographic and expect, instantaneously, the same amount of tradition and excitement, and aura as a city that has had it for a hundred years :
Isn't the reason that the Coyotes are here, and not in Winnipeg, is that the fan base here is such that it supports an NHL franchise. ???
Anyway, as much as I enjoy hockey - your position is obvious, as well as solid, and I am not going to bicker on an internet message board about whether San Jose should have a hockey team...
Cheers
Isn't the reason that the Coyotes are here, and not in Winnipeg, is that the fan base here is such that it supports an NHL franchise. ???
I feel it was reasonable to assume that Phoenix would be included in your "list".... and hard to believe that you intentionally left it out, because it is "different".
Anyway, as much as I enjoy hockey - your position is obvious, as well as solid, and I am not going to bicker on an internet message board about whether San Jose should have a hockey team...
Cheers
D
dutchie
Guest
Muskrat:
Re:"Isn't the reason that the Coyotes are here, and not in Winnipeg, is that the fan base here is such that it supports an NHL franchise." - it's ironic you mentioned this, as the move of the Jets to Phoenix is a real sore point for a lot of Canadian hockey fans. The Jets sold out most nights, enjoyed huge support despite a so-so team, fought tooth and nail to stay, but in the end, the owner moved them to Phoenix because despite all of this support, and despite the significantly less support in Phoenix, the US market (with the TV revenue) trumped all. Winnipeg was just too small in the new NHL world, no matter how nuts the fans were, no matter how many sellouts, etc. They didn't have a chance. Very Sad. I would like to see the NHL not only return to Winnipeg and Quebec, but also open new franchises (or relocate from the States, how ironic) in Sask, and the east coast (Halifax?). Sounds crazy, but I bet it would sell out every night in both places.
Re:"Isn't the reason that the Coyotes are here, and not in Winnipeg, is that the fan base here is such that it supports an NHL franchise." - it's ironic you mentioned this, as the move of the Jets to Phoenix is a real sore point for a lot of Canadian hockey fans. The Jets sold out most nights, enjoyed huge support despite a so-so team, fought tooth and nail to stay, but in the end, the owner moved them to Phoenix because despite all of this support, and despite the significantly less support in Phoenix, the US market (with the TV revenue) trumped all. Winnipeg was just too small in the new NHL world, no matter how nuts the fans were, no matter how many sellouts, etc. They didn't have a chance. Very Sad. I would like to see the NHL not only return to Winnipeg and Quebec, but also open new franchises (or relocate from the States, how ironic) in Sask, and the east coast (Halifax?). Sounds crazy, but I bet it would sell out every night in both places.
B
belka
Guest
This strike is a big headache and its the fans and small business owners that loose out in the end.
I'm on the side of the Owners, players make way too much and a salary cap is a must, if it works in the NFL, MLB and NBA, why not the NHL? There is nothing wrong with a player like Sakic taking a pay cut and earing $7 Million a year instead of the $10 million he currently makes. Sure he might not be able to afford the current model year Ferrari or Lambo, well he still might, but I mean common, the salaries are still rediculous.
I'm just glad I won't miss any games while at BMQ this fall.
I'm on the side of the Owners, players make way too much and a salary cap is a must, if it works in the NFL, MLB and NBA, why not the NHL? There is nothing wrong with a player like Sakic taking a pay cut and earing $7 Million a year instead of the $10 million he currently makes. Sure he might not be able to afford the current model year Ferrari or Lambo, well he still might, but I mean common, the salaries are still rediculous.
I'm just glad I won't miss any games while at BMQ this fall.
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The problem with the salary cap is that the league wants it at 31 Million. Now if that includes only the 2 goalies, 12 forwards + 2 extra, and 6 defence +2 extra, that equals to 24 players. 24/31000000=$774,193.54 each. Not to mention all the players in the minors that can be called up or are on 2 way contracts. It's too low. If the cap was higher or had a soft cap, wiht a surcharge if the team goes above it, the teams would be better off then they are now.
nULL; There already is a CHL. It the nationwide Junior league that the OHL and QMJHL are a subdivision of.
nULL; There already is a CHL. It the nationwide Junior league that the OHL and QMJHL are a subdivision of.
Lance Wiebe
Sr. Member
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A few of the owners are 90% responible for most of the problems. The Rangers, Red Wings and Avalanche have pushed salaries way up there. Heck, Colorado pays over 30 million to just three players. Forsberg pulls in over 11, Sakic just under 10, and Blake just over 9. Are these players really worth that much? Well, I guess to the Avalanche owners they are, but that is doing a gross injustice to the twenty teams that can't afford such huge salaries.
So, some of the owners are casuing most of the problems, the league failed to police themselves. I don't think we'll be seeing any NHL hockey for at least 16 months....
So, some of the owners are casuing most of the problems, the league failed to police themselves. I don't think we'll be seeing any NHL hockey for at least 16 months....
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I wouldn't be quite that pessimistic. But I agree it'll be a while yet.
As to the salaries, Look at those teams that were in the final this year. The Lightning and the Flames. Neither shells out top dollar. In 2002 the sens came within 1 game of the Staley cup final, with a payroll of $26 mill. The ducks made it to the final with a smaller payroll. The big bucks don't guarantee sucess, they may not even come close, as the Rangers have proven.
Now, yes the owners are partly to blame, but what about the agents? They are the ones telling the stars to hold out for more so that their own 10% is bigger.
As to the salaries, Look at those teams that were in the final this year. The Lightning and the Flames. Neither shells out top dollar. In 2002 the sens came within 1 game of the Staley cup final, with a payroll of $26 mill. The ducks made it to the final with a smaller payroll. The big bucks don't guarantee sucess, they may not even come close, as the Rangers have proven.
Now, yes the owners are partly to blame, but what about the agents? They are the ones telling the stars to hold out for more so that their own 10% is bigger.
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