Homosexual marriage (social & military implications, and related events)

[onecat]

"True,but that would be a "racial" issue SSM is not."

being prejudice, is still being prejudice doesn't want the issue is. Being Racist or homohoplic its still based on the same intolerances; its just easier to being intolerant to gays but there is no difference to me.  And remember these women are taking them to court because they barred their reception, not their marriage.  So the whole gay marriage thing has no place in this debate, as they were already married at that point.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

It is such an issue because you are trying to attach a religious term to process that the religions do not support.  If the government got out of the marriage business all together and only performed civil unions then there would be no issue.  The fight has turned from the important EQUAL RIGHTS issue to the use of a tittle.  

I personal don't think marriage should be a term given to SSC (same sex couples) but i feel that in a civil union they should have the same rights as though given to a Married Couple.  

The Government both Federal and Provincial should not be in the marriage business at all they should only be allowed to perform civil unions.  

The term marriage should be saved for religious ceremonies.  

There issue is solved.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Fellas
Read Camochick sig?

So. Does that lessen her opinion, or make unvaluable?

In fact i think it makes it that much more valuable, A sig is not based on fact read Bradswallows, or Apes or mine does that determine who i am?

 

[George Wallace]

The "race" remarks can't be taken in context either.   How does a Black Man fighting for equal rights of a White Man, and Black Woman fighting for equal rights to a White Woman fifty years ago, equate to two men (or two women) trying to have the same legal status as a man and woman?   When do we allow "the Cowboy the rights to marry his horse"?   (A couple of cases have been put before the courts before of cowboys and their horses.)

Paul Martins comments that homosexual relationships are legal and polygamy is not, would therefore fall into this category.   Homosexual relations were illegal not so many years ago.   What is to say polygamy doesn't also go through the same 'developmental stages' in the courts and becomes legal in another twenty years.   We already have Muslim clerics stating that they see nothing wrong with polygamy.   Some Mormon Sects already practice it.   Where do we stop?   Everyone and everything cannot be equal.   Some lines must be drawn and well defined.   Perhaps Marriage should be considered only a Church matter between a man and a woman, as it is in some countries, and Civil Unions be the Civil equivalent of two consenting non-gender specific human adults.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

george you are a wise man

 

[camochick]

It is the same thing as race discrimination. It's denying the rights of one group to another. Polygamy is not something people are born with. You don't think when you are a kid that hey, I have this feeling in me that makes me want to marry more than one woman. We in our society are not sapposed to discriminate against handicapped people cause they are born that way, so why is it alright to discriminate against gays. Who cares if it's called marriage or a civil union. Heterosexuals have had the market on marriage for how long, wow, look what they have done with it. If they are marrying in the eyes of the lord and calling it a marriage, isn't it a sin to break those vows, isn't it wrong to get divorced. What a hypocrisy. You cant call it marriage cause you are gay but I can get married in the eyes of my lord and then go screw someone else and get a divorce.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

If they are marrying in the eyes of the lord and calling it a marriage, isn't it a sin to break those vows,  YES isn't it wrong to get divorced. YES  What a hypocrisy. You cant call it marriage cause you are gay but I can get married in the eyes of my lord and then go screw someone else and get a divorce.

Again divorce is not a religious institution.

What about the lesbian couple who got married when it was made legal in Ont and then got divorced last month? 

I am not saying that only straight couples can be married i am saying that we make it a religious term that way straight couples who do want to have a civil union but are not religious can have it done by the government.  This is not discrimination as the rights for all would be the same.  Is that not the real issue. 

What one chooses to do after they are married will have to be answered to at one point, be it to a higher power or not

 

[beach_bum]

It is the same thing as race discrimination. It's denying the rights of one group to another. Polygamy is not something people are born with. You don't think when you are a kid that hey, I have this feeling in me that makes me want to marry more than one woman. We in our society are not sapposed to discriminate against handicapped people cause they are born that way, so why is it alright to discriminate against gays. Who cares if it's called marriage or a civil union. Heterosexuals have had the market on marriage for how long, wow, look what they have done with it. If they are marrying in the eyes of the lord and calling it a marriage, isn't it a sin to break those vows, isn't it wrong to get divorced. What a hypocrisy. You cant call it marriage cause you are gay but I can get married in the eyes of my lord and then go screw someone else and get a divorce.

In the eyes of the Catholic church, being gay is a sin.  I do not have a problem with civil unions or SSC's receiving the same benefits as anyone else, but I do have a problem with their union being called a marriage.  Marriage is a religious based union, and should remain within the church.  As for divorce, the catholic church does not recognize divorces either.  Someone who does get a divorce is not allowed to marry again within the Church based on that fact.  Also, adultery.....read the ten commandments.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That, in my opinion, is correct, good post ,Beach.

Quote,
Polygamy is not something people are born with. You don't think when you are a kid that hey, I have this feeling in me that makes me want to marry more than one woman
...actually Camochick, I challenge you on this, I think that is exactly what most men are born with and society changes that.

 

[rcr]

I think you are taking this a little too far bringing divorce into the matter.  I don't know about you, but I have witnessed my parents divorcing and if it is not something you've gone through, do not even try to bring it into perspective here.  Divorce is not condoned by religion either.  Divorce is a personal matter against religious values.  What will the opinion be when a Same sex couple married by a Pastor decides to break their values?

What is trying to be tabled here by other members is that the term Marriage traditionally belongs to the church.  What is trying to be applied through legislation is that this term can be applied to the union between two people of the same sex.  What the Church is trying to defend itself from is having this union now incorporate same sex couples, while homosexuality is something traditionally frowned upon by the Church.  There is nothing wrong with a civil union, but when the Church is being forced or if will be forced to allow Marriage between to people of the same sex, I think it has the right to defend itself.  Do you not think there is pressure or discrimination against churches as well in this matter?  

I understand you're trying to defend your opinion, but do not forget there are two sides to this issue and two parties trying to put through their opinion as well.

 

[camochick]

But why does it really matter whether its called marriage, or a civil union, shouldnt it be called the same thing for everyone. I don't have any religous beliefs but if i get married to a man can I still call what I have a marriage. OF course, cause i am marrying a man. But if i marry a woman then I have to call it a civil union. Where is the logic in that. Why does it matter to religious people if gays get married or what they call it. They are not gay, they are not getting married. When did it become their business? 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Folks,
Do any of us think we will change anyones mind here?  If this issue bothers either side this much, my suggestion would be to go find a website that caters to this discussion and vent to your hearts content.
Unless a new story/development comes up I'm going to lock this down as we are just repeating ourselves.
Thanks,
Bruce