Houthi Red Sea Blockade

[Cloud Cover]

More specifically- they don’t have that type of ammo.

I guess I should have been clearer. A missile, drone or other target has to be somewhat close to be within effective range of CIWS, which gather is not more than 2000 metres, probably less. The RN doesn’t stock any specific anti air ammunition for the Mk8 Mod1, so they also do not train for it.
Paradoxically, the Iranian frigate in the Red Sea has the same gun, and they have AA rounds but likely no radar system to guide the mount properly.

The T45 also has 2x DS30B 30 mm gun mounts which could very well have been quickly and quietly replaced with DS30M, which is a crew served 30mm gun and missile system designed for drone engagements. I don’t know how it is guided or what the means of target acquisition are. These have a slightly longer effective range. Would really like to see these on the CSC but very unlikely.

Royal Navy test-fires ship-mounted Martlet Lightweight Multi-role Missile - Navy Lookout

Offering an important new defensive capability for the fleet against small boats, the Martlet LMM has been successfully test-fired from the DS30M Mark II cannon mount on a Type 23 frigate. The Thales LMM (to be called Martlet in RN service) has always been intended to arm the RN's Wildcat...

www.navylookout.com

Edit: the reason I brought this up is (1) the surprising proximity to the aerial threat and (2) the USN is using its 5” guns on top of all the other projectiles being flung into the air.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

More specifically- they don’t have that type of ammo.

I guess I should have been clearer. A missile, drone or other target has to be somewhat close to be within effective range of CIWS, which gather is not more than 2000 metres, probably less. The RN doesn’t stock any specific anti air ammunition for the Mk8 Mod1, so they also do not train for it.
Paradoxically, the Iranian frigate in the Red Sea has the same gun, and they have AA rounds but likely no radar system to guide the mount properly.

The T45 also has 2x DS30B 30 mm gun mounts which could very well have been quickly and quietly replaced with DS30M, which is a crew served 30mm gun and missile system designed for drone engagements. I don’t know how it is guided or what the means of target acquisition are. These have a slightly longer effective range. Would really like to see these on the CSC but very unlikely.

Royal Navy test-fires ship-mounted Martlet Lightweight Multi-role Missile - Navy Lookout

Offering an important new defensive capability for the fleet against small boats, the Martlet LMM has been successfully test-fired from the DS30M Mark II cannon mount on a Type 23 frigate. The Thales LMM (to be called Martlet in RN service) has always been intended to arm the RN's Wildcat...

www.navylookout.com

The Type 45 also has Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles that can detect and engage the full spectrum of Air threats...

Who knows though, maybe based on missile trajectory, position of the ship relative to the threat, other ships, aircraft, etc in the area... the combat system spewed CIWS as the recommended engagement plan?

 

[Cloud Cover]

I believe they now also have 24 Sea Ceptor, but not sure if they are the ExLS that we have ordered.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The Type 45 also has Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles that can detect and engage the full spectrum of Air threats...

Who knows though, maybe based on missile trajectory, position of the ship relative to the threat, other ships, aircraft, etc in the area... the combat system spewed CIWS as the recommended engagement plan?

I have to believe that 90 percent of these intercepts are done by missiles and not guns.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have to believe that 90 percent of these intercepts are done by missiles and not guns.

Likely true, but if you can do a few with the main gun, the savings would pay for a lot of gun ammunition.

 

[Halifax Tar]

More specifically- they don’t have that type of ammo.

I guess I should have been clearer. A missile, drone or other target has to be somewhat close to be within effective range of CIWS, which gather is not more than 2000 metres, probably less.

Hence the name, Close In Weapons System

 

[Halifax Tar]

I have to believe that 90 percent of these intercepts are done by missiles and not guns.

The goal is 100%. Everything after missiles is a back up.

Having said that, how economical is it to spend a multimillion dollar missile taking down at multi hundred or thousand dollar target ?

 

[YZT580]

The goal is 100%. Everything after missiles is a back up.

Having said that, how economical is it to spend a multimillion dollar missile taking down at multi hundred or thousand dollar target ?

you would feel rather sheepish if your missiles didn't take the shot and your ciws failed. If you can guarantee your guns will stop incoming go for it.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Having said that, how economical is it to spend a multimillion dollar missile taking down at multi hundred or thousand dollar target ?

It's the value of your target's target you should assess. Iron Dome doesn't hit everything, just those rockets that will impact somewhere of consequence.

 

[Kirkhill]

The Type 45 also has Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles that can detect and engage the full spectrum of Air threats...

Who knows though, maybe based on missile trajectory, position of the ship relative to the threat, other ships, aircraft, etc in the area... the combat system spewed CIWS as the recommended engagement plan?

My thought was simply that they had run out of missiles. If the Houthis keep throwing rounds in the air the ship's magazines are going to be exhausted meaning the ship needs to go back to port (Musqat?) to reload meaning more ships have to be put on station to keep the conveyor belt loaded.

 

[Halifax Tar]

you would feel rather sheepish if your missiles didn't take the shot and your ciws failed. If you can guarantee your guns will stop incoming go for it.

It's the value of your target's target you should assess. Iron Dome doesn't hit everything, just those rockets that will impact somewhere of consequence.

My point is we have finite amounts of all types of munitions. And perhaps we should be smart about what we expend our best capable munitions on. This is a specific issue the RCN would run into.

My thought was simply that they had run out of missiles. If the Houthis keep throwing rounds in the air the ship's magazines are going to be exhausted meaning the ship needs to go back to port (Musqat?) to reload meaning more ships have to be put on station to keep the conveyor belt loaded.

Bingo.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My point is we have finite amounts of all types of munitions. And perhaps we should be smart about what we expend our best capable munitions on. This is a specific issue the RCN would run into.



Bingo.

I think it's an issue almost every navy is going to be grappling with.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My thought was simply that they had run out of missiles. If the Houthis keep throwing rounds in the air the ship's magazines are going to be exhausted meaning the ship needs to go back to port (Musqat?) to reload meaning more ships have to be put on station to keep the conveyor belt loaded.

Possibility, as I said, maybe there is some other reason they opted for guns.

As an aside, The British Main Base for the region is in Duq'm, Oman. They've put quite a bit of money in to the place.

Duqm Port - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's meant to provide an alternative to Al Jufair in Bahrain, which is increasingly vulnerable due to the Iranian presence in the Gulf.

Al Jufair is also too shallow to handle the larget British Ships.

 

[Lumber]

Possibility, as I said, maybe there is some other reason they opted for guns.

As an aside, The British Main Base for the region is in Duq'm, Oman. They've put quite a bit of money in to the place.

Duqm Port - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's meant to provide an alternative to Al Jufair in Bahrain, which is increasingly vulnerable due to the Iranian presence in the Gulf.

Al Jufair is also too shallow to handle the larget British Ships.

This guy hasn't been 100% accurate in the last so I'm trying to corroborate but I wouldn't be surprised if this is true if only a bit embellished.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745560098766737465

 

[brihard]

This guy hasn't been 100% accurate in the last so I'm trying to corroborate but I wouldn't be surprised if this is true if only a bit embellished.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745560098766737465

He’s pretty sensationalist and prone to garbage. But, a lot of other people are saying the same. British government’s been having emergency meetings. I suspect that if it’s not already underway, it will be imminently.

 

[Good2Golf]

FO phase of FAFO: engaged

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745597724295110959

 

[Halifax Tar]

FO phase of FAFO: engaged

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745597724295110959

Canada ?

 

[Good2Golf]

Canada ?

Perhaps part of the operation was Canada sending Houthis an invitation to open their doors…for the Tomahawks?

 

[dimsum]

Canada ?

They’re listing all of the countries that have signed onto OPG. Not necessarily ones sending ships.

Australia isn’t sending any ships either.

 

[TAW]

According to the news report I read, Canada is sending staff officers to OPG (i.e. x2)