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How Does France's Rejection of the EU Agreement Change Things?

Infanteer said:
Not only that, but maintaining the national currency preserves important political options open regarding monetary policy.

Hadn't thought of that...but yeah, your right.

Brad Sallows said:
>How Does France's Rejection of the EU Agreement Change Things?

It forces the French government to observe a respectable modicum of delay before signing on irrespective of the popular wishes of the electorate.

So what your saying is that Chirac will send it to Parliament (where it apparently will surely pass) after a cooling off period? That might be the only way to save it.
 
I'm saying that a supranational level of government in Europe which is not directly or easily accountable to the masses represents the fulfillment of centuries of striving for what was thought to be an impossible apex of unassailable power and privilege, and I doubt the European aristocratic elite classes which envision themselves (realistically or not) holding the levers of that regime are going to be swayed by anything so trivial as an occasional unsupportive referendum.

If the Dutch and British can deliver a hearty "sod off", there may be hope the useful parts of the pan-European dream (free trade, customs unions, absence of continent-consuming wars) can be saved without the unnecessary bureaucratic sinecures.
 
Ah, Mark Steyn with some observations. His Europe sounds a lot like our Canada, including the observation the political elites are more than willing to do what they want regardless of the "will of the people", and do not feel the need the "freely given consent of the governed".

http://www.marksteyn.com/

Europe is an indulgence we can't afford
By Mark Steyn
(Filed: 31/05/2005)

The Eurofetishists can't seem to agree their line on this referendum business. On the one hand, the Guardian's headline writer was packing up and heading for the hills - "Europe is plunged into crisis" - and EU leaders warned that "Europe" might cease to function.

Oh, come on. We won't get that lucky.

On balance, Jean-Claude Juncker, the "president" of "Europe", seems closer to the mark in his now famous dismissal of the will of the people: "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'."

And if it's a Neither of the Above, he will say "we move forward". You get the idea. Confronted by the voice of the people, "President" Juncker covers his ears and says: "Nya, nya, nya, can't hear you!" There are several lessons worth learning from the French vote. The first is that the Junckers are a big part of the problem.

Only in totalitarian dictatorships does the ballot come with a pre-ordained correct answer. Yet President Juncker distilled the great flaw at the heart of the EU constitution into one straightforward sentence that cut through all the thickets of Giscard's unreadable verbiage. The American constitution begins with the words "We the people". The starting point for the EU constitution is: "We know better than the people."

After that, the rest doesn't matter: you can't do trickle-down nation-building. The British, who've written more constitutions for more real nations than anybody in history and therefore can't plead the same ignorance as President Juncker, should be especially ashamed of going along with this farrago of a travesty of a charade.

Ah, say the Eurofetishists, but you naysayers are gloating undeservedly: the French didn't suddenly see the light and decide British Eurosceptics had been right all along; they rejected the EU constitution because they thought it was an Anglo-Saxon racket to impose capitalism on their pampered protectionist utopia.

But so what? Britain's naysayers don't have to reject the constitution for the same reason as France's commies, fascists, racists, eco-nutters, anachronistic unionists, featherbedded farmers, middle-aged "students", Trot professors and welfare queens, bless 'em all. If they want to go down the Eurinal of history clinging to their unaffordable welfare state, their 30-hour work weeks, 10-month work years and seven-year work decades, that's up to them. If Britain doesn't, that should be up to Britain.

For decades, some of us have argued that "Europe" is too diverse to form a single polity, that the British and French are in fact foreign to each other. Sir Edward Heath and his ilk scoff at such crude language: why, today's young cosmopolitan Britons are perfectly comfortable drinking Beaujolais and eating croissants and flaunting their wedding tackle on the Côte d'Azur. True, and irrelevant. What Sunday's vote underlined is profound differences in political culture. Britain's anti-Europeans and France's lunatic fringe are united only in their reluctance to be bossed around by a regulatory regime that insists a one-size-fits-all rulebook can be applied from Ballymena to the Baltics. It can't. The alleged incompatibility of our dissatisfactions makes the point: all politics is local; despite the assiduous promotion of the term, electorally speaking there is no such thing as a "European".

Incidentally, that "lunatic fringe" in France now accounts for about 60 per cent of the electorate. That's another lesson for the decayed Euro-elite. One of the most unattractive features of European politics is the way it insists certain subjects are out of bounds, and beyond politics. That's the most obvious flaw in Giscard's flaccid treaty: it's not a constitution, it's a perfectly fine party platform for a rather stodgy semi-obsolescent social democratic party. Its constitutional "rights" - the right to housing assistance, the right to preventive action on the environment - are not constitutional at all, but the sort of things parties ought to be arguing about at election time.

Instead, Europe's "consensus" politics has ruled more and more topics unfit for discussion, leaving voters with a choice between Eurodee and Eurodum, a left-of-right-of-left-of-centre party and a right-of-left-of-right-of-left-of-centre party. None of these plodding technocratic parties seems eager to talk about any of the faintly unrespectable subjects on the minds of voters - Muslim immigration, increasing crime, Turkey, EU labour mobility. So voters, naturally, are turning elsewhere, and in five years' time the entire Continent could end up with the same flight from the centre as we've seen in Ulster.

As to whether Turkey is European, evidently it was a century and a half ago when Tsar Nicholas I described it as "the sick man of Europe". Today the sick man of Europe is the European, the gilded princeling like Chirac or Juncker, gliding from one Eutopian planning session to the next, oblivious to the dreary parochial concerns of the people. In The Sunday Telegraph, Douglas Hurd, typically, missed the point in his analysis of the French vote, arguing that Europe needed "new leaders". Our colleagues headlined it, "Two men and a woman who can save Europe". No, no, no. Europe doesn't have a lack of leaders, it has a lack of followers.

I mentioned to a theatre chum the other day that the EU reminded me of Garth Drabinsky's Livent company. They were the big theatre producers in the Nineties: they revived Show Boat and produced Kiss of the Spider Woman and Ragtime and Sweet Smell of Success in Toronto and on Broadway and brought most of them to the West End. And they were all critically admired, yet didn't seem to make any money. But Livent took the view that somehow if you produced a big enough range of flops they would add up to one smash hit.

They're gone now. But their spirit lives on in the EU, critically admired (at least by the Guardian and Le Monde) but not making any money, and clinging to the theory that if you merge enough weak economies they add up to one global superpower. The big story of the past three decades is that the more it's mired itself in the creation of a centralised pseudo-state, the more "Europe" has fallen behind America in every important long-term indicator, from economic growth to demographics. "Europe" is an indulgence the real Europe can't afford. The followers recognise that, even if the leaders don't.

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2005.\
 
The real disheartening thing for me about watching this collective hissy fit from inside France, is the pathetic level of debate involved.  There has been quite a bit of airtime and ink spent on the question of Turkey's role in the EU (which has absolutely nothing to do with the constitution), and almost none of it involves any intelligent argument.  There are many reasons for and against allowing Turkey into the Union, but most of what we here is crap like "Turkey isn't in Europe", "Non à l'islamation," or other such adolescent debates.

When I moved here from the US, I was looking forward to leaving the silliness of Fox News and CNN behind, but I was wrong.  There are idiots all over the world.  Or maybe it's just journalists and talking heads in general...
 
ABC News
EU Talks on Its Future Budget Collapse After Britain Refuses to Surrender Annual Rebate
By BETH GARDINER Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press

BRUSSELS, Belgium Jun 18, 2005 â ” Talks on the European Union's budget collapsed in acrimony Friday, abruptly ending a summit that diplomats had hoped would pull the EU out of its constitutional dilemma. Top European leaders blamed each other for the breakdown but agreed the bloc was "in a deep crisis."
The failure to agree on a budget for 2007-2013 reinforced impressions that the 50-year process of EU integration has lost direction after the French and Dutch referendums in which voters rejected a proposed EU constitution. Leaders of the bloc's member states failed to resolve strident disputes over spending and did not present a clear plan to save the constitution.
Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker said early Saturday that in coming weeks EU diplomats and others "will tell you that Europe is not in crisis. It is in a deep crisis," he said after the two-day summit.

European leaders did agree Thursday to postpone the November 2006 deadline by which all members were to have ratified the charter, a roadmap to further the political and economic integration of Europe. They said the extra time would be used to digest the French and Dutch referendums nearly three weeks ago.
But on Friday, Britain refused to surrender its annual rebate and several other nations demanded financial relief. French President Jacque Chirac said he "deplored" Britain's attitude during the tense negotiations.
"It's a bad result for Europe," Chirac said.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said, "We are in one of the worst political crises Europe has ever seen. We could not get an agreement because of the stubbornness of Great Britain and the Netherlands."
British Prime Minister Tony Blair dismissed suggestions that Britain was the main cause of the summit's collapse, insisting four other countries also were unable to reach agreement.
In what appeared to be a veiled reference to Chirac, Blair said: "I'm not prepared to have someone tell me there is only one view of what Europe is."
"Europe isn't owned by any of them, Europe is owned by all of us."

Blair had said he would only consider changes to the rebate worth about $5.5 billion annually if the European Union agreed to overhaul agricultural subsidies, which account for more than 40 percent of the EU's budget. The Netherlands and Sweden also demanded relief, complaining their annual payments to the bloc were too high.
Blair argued it is necessary to balance the outsized agricultural subsidies that flow far more generously to France and other continental countries than to Britain. France in particular insisted that Britain's rebate won two decades ago by Margaret Thatcher should be eliminated.

In a sign of how much the EU's new members were prepared to go to clinch a deal, Poland, the Czech Republic and eight other eastern nations offered funds destined for them to their rich western partners.

Chirac praised the 10 nations that joined the EU last year, saying their offer to give up money to get Sweden, the Netherlands, Finland and Britain to agree to a budget deal contrasted with "the selfishness of two or three rich states."
Czech Prime Minister Jiri Paroubek said most countries reacted by "telling us that it's unacceptable."
Juncker said he was "ashamed" that poor EU nations had to offer to cut their funding to please the rich.
The budget dispute soured the second day of summit negotiations, pitting Britain against France.
Blair rejected a plan floated by Juncker, the summit host, calling it too ambiguous regarding reforms of farm subsidies.
Juncker had suggested raising the rebate to $6.7 billion, then freezing it until 2013, but Blair's spokesman said he did not offer enough in exchange.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso had warned earlier this week that the European Union would face "paralysis" if it failed to restore momentum to its bid to adopt a constitution.
Britain currently contributes $14.9 billion annually or 12.1 percent of the EU budget but receives $5.5 billion of that amount back in the rebate a privilege other EU leaders say is outdated and unfair.

Failure to agree on the EU budget, worth some $120 billion annually, deepened the sense of crisis.
Barroso had said it was vital for leaders to reach agreement even an imperfect one to show that Europe is working despite the constitution rejections and news that two more countries will put ratification on hold. All 25 EU nations must approve the charter before it can take effect.

The Netherlands, Germany, France, Austria, Sweden, and Britain all contribute more to the EU budget than they get back in benefits. They want spending in 2007-2013 capped at 1 percent of the EU's annual gross national income.

.....sounds like the whole concept is taking a beating.
 
The CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) is the largest single illegal (because it violates signed treaties) trade subsidy in the world today.  (The US defence budget subsidies may be larger but they are not illegal because those same treaties exempt national security/defence industrial support programmes from international trade law.)  The Europeans, mainly the French, get a free ride because they have enough votes in the WTO to stave off sanctions.  The bigger problem is that the CAP is going to destroy Europe â “ it forces many tens of millions of industrial/services workers to subsidize a very few million relatively wealthy and remarkably inefficient (mostly French, German and Italian) farmers and vintners.

The French farmers are politically powerful â “ very, very powerful, because there are a lot of them and they are conditioned to and experienced in the use of violence to get their way.  France is, traditionally, governed by men like Chirac and de Vellipin, graduates of the famous hautes écoles and scions of great families, which means they are both foolish and cowardly â “ fit heirs to de Gaulle.  Given these sorts of leaders the French farmers always win and always will.

Any useful reforms of Europe will have to be led by the British â “ until other Europeans come to understand that socialism, in all its forms, is a destructive doctrine.

Britain belongs in NAFTA or, better, in a new global free trade area involving, to start, Australia, America, Britain*, Canada, Chile, Iceland, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Japan, Singapore, South Korea and Turkey; expanding, quickly, to include Brunei, Denmark*, Hong Kong, India, Ireland*, Malaysia, Netherlands* and Finland*; and not too long afterwards Argentina, Austria, Brazil, China, Estonia*, Israel, Italy*, Pakistan, Spain*, Sri Lanka, Sweden* and Switzerland and so on and so forth.

This global body will supplant the WTO with a real FTA â “ eventually it will replace the UNSC, too.

* All of which must, according to the Treaty of Rome, withdraw from the EU before they join another FTA.

 
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