How much do you pay for mess dues?

[Pusser]

The OR's have it even worse; my MCpl section commanders pay $20 for two months and are locked out of a room which had all the expensive sound system/42" plasma tv/comfortable couches paid for by their mess dues (the sign on the door says something to the effect of "reserved for permanent staff only"). Candidates never get into the mess at all but must still pay.

That is simply wrong and a clear violation of policy.  No CO who calls himself a leader should allow this to happen.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That is simply wrong and a clear violation of policy.  No CO who calls himself a leader should allow this to happen.

We're talking Meaford here : The whole Mess institution there has been out of control from the day they opened the doors.

 

[toughenough]

One solution is to have a mandatory half hour at the mess after your parade night... If anything it got the Esprit de Corps up a wee bit. No one forced anyone to drink alcohol.

Our unit has this. Our mess currently has more funds then it can spend. You can only buy so many video games. And the folks with the facilities contract won't allow us to pay for improvements to the mess itself.

As for not having reasonable attendance after a parade night, this is a leadership thing. It's not uncommon for one of our Sr JRs (is that an oxymoron?) to be standing by the exit and questioning every troop why he is heading towards the exit rather than the mess. Our CSM has also marched us to and dismissed us in front of the mess on a semi-regular basis (3 or 4 times per training year) for the 5 years I've been in.

If your unit has bad attendance, it's your unit's fault. You can affect the change.

 

[Neill McKay]

What exactly do these mess dues get you?  And what exactly goes on in said mess?

A mess is much like a traditional club, of the type not often seen in civilian life anymore.  There's usually a place to relax (something like a living room), a bar, often games (pool, darts, video games), often a dining hall.  The extent of the facility depends a lot on where it is.  In an armoury it's not much different from a pub in most ways.  On a base it might include the main dining room and/or quarters for that rank group.

Membership (which is generally compulsory) gets you the use of the facilities and the right to attend functions (which others have described in this thread).  Drinks tend to be cheap, and for certain occasions free.  Sometimes there is free food as well, e.g. finger foods during a sports event.  Some messes will have very impressive a formal dinner (a "mess dinner") from time to time.

I'm aware there are separate messes for Officers, NCOs and NCMs but are they messes for the base? For each unit?

In my experience most bases will have one mess for each rank group (officers, warrant officers and sergeants, and junior ranks).  In some cases individual units may have their own messes.  For example, at CFB Gagetown there is an officers' mess for all officers, and the RCR Battalion on the base has its own officers' mess as well.  I think single-unit/regimental messes were more common in the past.

In armouries with multiple units I believe it's customary to have a single mess in each rank group for all of the units.

In some cases different rank groups share a mess, e.g. I know of one armoury that has one mess for officers, warrant officers, and sergeants and another one for junior ranks.  CFB Greenwood has one mess for everyone but each rank group has its own spaces in the building.  The dining hall and some facilities are shared.

 

[Danjanou]

I thought my info was dated but appears some things have not changed.  I left Gagetown after a 4 month call out to the School of Cool in 1988 where I was charged $15.00 a month for the CTC WO & Sgts Mess which was open every day and had numerous functions, free munchies etc. and a snack pit, TV room, main bar etc. There was also a welcome door policy to the other two WO & Sgts Mess on base for base staff and other lodger units. I had a receipt to claim mess dues against those of my parent unit base as a credit for the time I was in NB.

I  arrived in Toronto that fall  and transferred to the Toronto Scottish at FYA and was told dues were $25.00 a month 10 months of the year ( summers off) for a one room mess that in theory was supposed to be open two nights a week,  Tuesday Parades  and Thursday admin. It has less than a dozen members  and an archaic dress code that stated if you were not in uniform of the day on admin night because maybe you came straight from work, you could not enter the mess unless in jacket and tie?  :

Most times the mess was never open on Thursday and frequently not on Tuesday as the then bartender often decided not to come in. IIRC I ended up ringing the bell for my promotion to MWO in the RRC Mess as mine was closed. I bought another round the next time ours was open of course.

There were at the time 1 JRs mess for the five units in FYA, but five each Officers Messes & WO & Sgts Messes naturally and 4 all ranks band messes. Any suggestion on combining the high priced help into a single mess  for Officers and another for WO  & Sgts like the troopies was of course met with cries for public crucifixion on the drill hall floor. Such was my intro to the oh so social aspect of the Militia in Upper Canada.

By the time I left in 1994, I was Vice PMC and the place had a manager/steward who at least showed up twice a week and even on some weekend functions.

Legion Branch I just transferredf to wants a whopping $40.00 a year and has a honking great patio. ;D

 

[cn]

Part of my in-clearing today was to check in to the JR-Ranks mess, so I got to see first hand what they are like (in Borden at least).  Exactly what I expected from the above posts, actually more than what I expected. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Paid $23 for the fol time period 15 Jul till 10 Sep at the WO and Sgt's mess Gagetown.....

 

[aesop081]

The WO & Sgts mess here sucks....

The mess has money but because the dues can no longer be used to support the bar , the bar is going under. In response, the bar hours were cut , further reducing oportunities to make money. Bar prices are just about the same as in town and selection more limited.

The ascociate memers act like they own the place. 5 of us where standing in line one night at the bar and one of them decided to stand at the bar, 3 feet away from our line and says "line is over here". When we told him to pound salt, he just went around the corner to the other side of the bar and ended up served before us. On a rare night where i went, me and some other folks from the sqn sat at one table only to have some 70 year old army wife ***** at us about sitting at "their table"........we were all in uniform !! Theres is an RCAF association club close to the base but they dont want to go there...thats where all the retired officiers hang out.......

The TGIF menu sucks. Its usualy something like lasagna and garlic bread or beef on a bun. Either way, its comes from the mess hall kitchen downstairs. Its bad enough i have to pay $3 for each TGIF, let alone that its just mess hall food. Maybe if the menu wasnt designed for senior citizens, serving members would go and stay longer than food an one drink like the retired folks do.

Our mess doesnt even have a military feel to it. A few pictures of airplanes long retired and thats about it. Its like a realy old legion hall, without all the memorabilia in it.

We are supposed to get a new building with all 3 messes in it. Yet again, 3 seperate messes only. No common room like the one in Greenwood. We now have crews composed of personel belonging to all 3 messes and have no common place off base to get together for a drink, so everyone heads off base.

What do i get for my mess dues ? Coffee and sticky buns every 1st and 3rd Wednesday and the accompanying speech about not supporting the mess.

 

[Haggis]

Reserve Mess life in Ontario has just taken another kick in the junk from the McGuinty government.

Most Reserve JRs messes are made up of members in thier late teens and early 20's.  Effective 01 August 2010, any driver in Ontario who is under 22 years of age has to maintain a zero blood alcohol content.  Therefore, members under 22 who would previously stick around for one or two drinks after training/exercises are now going to be leaving right away.  This law was aimed at reducing impaired driving among city kids with reliable access to public transportation as an alternative to driving after a drink.  That's admirable.  But in true McGuinty style, he has once again ignored the effects of his actions on rural Ontario.  In small town Ontario this law further isolates the farm kid/Army Reservist who wants to share in sensible and mature esprit de corps with his fellow Canadian soldiers.

So, how well attended will your unit's Christmas dinner be this year?

 

[George Wallace]

Haggis

Your post and then the Oromocto Legion post seem to indicate a drastic change to the way Messes and Institutes may be run in the near future.

 

[a_majoor]

As for not having reasonable attendance after a parade night, this is a leadership thing. It's not uncommon for one of our Sr JRs (is that an oxymoron?) to be standing by the exit and questioning every troop why he is heading towards the exit rather than the mess. Our CSM has also marched us to and dismissed us in front of the mess on a semi-regular basis (3 or 4 times per training year) for the 5 years I've been in.

If you have to coerce your people to go to the mess with real or implied punishments for not going (and what implications would a new Pte. draw from being questioned by a senior member or having the CSM bring you right to the door?) then maybe there are other issues.

Try a little experiment. Don't have someone standing by the door for a 2 month period and see how many people chose to come on their own. If the attendance drops then that should tell you about the real level of support for the mess.

 

[Neill McKay]

the dues can no longer be used to support the bar

What does that mean -- just that the dues can't subsidize the cost of drinks, or is there more to it?  (Are you required to make enough money from drinks to pay the bartender, e.g.?)

 

[dapaterson]

What does that mean -- just that the dues can't subsidize the cost of drinks, or is there more to it?  (Are you required to make enough money from drinks to pay the bartender, e.g.?)

Bars are supposed to be self-supporting - bar sales should cover the cost of goods sold plus bartender wages.

That's been on the books for years, just casually ignored in many places.

 

[Pusser]

Reserve Mess life in Ontario has just taken another kick in the junk from the McGuinty government.

Most Reserve JRs messes are made up of members in thier late teens and early 20's.  Effective 01 August 2010, any driver in Ontario who is under 22 years of age has to maintain a zero blood alcohol content.  Therefore, members under 22 who would previously stick around for one or two drinks after training/exercises are now going to be leaving right away.  This law was aimed at reducing impaired driving among city kids with reliable access to public transportation as an alternative to driving after a drink.  That's admirable.  But in true McGuinty style, he has once again ignored the effects of his actions on rural Ontario.  In small town Ontario this law further isolates the farm kid/Army Reservist who wants to share in sensible and mature esprit de corps with his fellow Canadian soldiers.

So, how well attended will your unit's Christmas dinner be this year?

Two things to consider here: 

1) Why do you have to drink alcohol to socialize with your colleagues?  And I am no teetotaller.  I always enjoy a good libation - or four.

2) Get imaginitive with transportation.  If there is no public transit, try carpooling witha designtated driver.  As for the Christmas party, do what many messes have been doing for years - give out taxi chits or rent a van and pay for a driver to drive folks home.  There are solutions to this problem.  It just takes the will (and OK, the money) to implement them.

 

[Neill McKay]

Bars are supposed to be self-supporting - bar sales should cover the cost of goods sold plus bartender wages.

That's been on the books for years, just casually ignored in many places.

I see.  I can understand that there might be a reluctance to allow the sale of alcohol below its own purchase cost, but I'm surprised that the bartender's wages have to figure into it.  I wonder if any messes have been able to get around this by employing the bartender to do other things (or employing some other person such as the mess manager to tend the bar as a secondary function).  I know that, in some messes, a member is the "duty bartender".

 

[Pusser]

The WO & Sgts mess here sucks....

The mess has money but because the dues can no longer be used to support the bar , the bar is going under. In response, the bar hours were cut , further reducing oportunities to make money. Bar prices are just about the same as in town and selection more limited.

The ascociate memers act like they own the place. 5 of us where standing in line one night at the bar and one of them decided to stand at the bar, 3 feet away from our line and says "line is over here". When we told him to pound salt, he just went around the corner to the other side of the bar and ended up served before us. On a rare night where i went, me and some other folks from the sqn sat at one table only to have some 70 year old army wife ***** at us about sitting at "their table"........we were all in uniform !! Theres is an RCAF association club close to the base but they dont want to go there...thats where all the retired officiers hang out.......

The TGIF menu sucks. Its usualy something like lasagna and garlic bread or beef on a bun. Either way, its comes from the mess hall kitchen downstairs. Its bad enough i have to pay $3 for each TGIF, let alone that its just mess hall food. Maybe if the menu wasnt designed for senior citizens, serving members would go and stay longer than food an one drink like the retired folks do.

Our mess doesnt even have a military feel to it. A few pictures of airplanes long retired and thats about it. Its like a realy old legion hall, without all the memorabilia in it.

We are supposed to get a new building with all 3 messes in it. Yet again, 3 seperate messes only. No common room like the one in Greenwood. We now have crews composed of personel belonging to all 3 messes and have no common place off base to get together for a drink, so everyone heads off base.

What do i get for my mess dues ? Coffee and sticky buns every 1st and 3rd Wednesday and the accompanying speech about not supporting the mess.

I find the best solution to these problems is to get involved.  Joint the Entertainment Committee and volunteer to plan an event.  As for the Associates, make it clear to them that they are welcome to attend, but that it is your mess and the current regular membership will decide how things go.  Having said that, for many messes, it is the Associates that are keeping them afloat.  Therefore, it is necessary to proceed with caution

 

[Pusser]

Bars are supposed to be self-supporting - bar sales should cover the cost of goods sold plus bartender wages.

That's been on the books for years, just casually ignored in many places.

That's not quite true.  All the directives on the subject, were aimed at subsidized alcohol (i.e. we're not supposed to sell booze at less than cost).  There is nothing wrong with using other sources of revenue (e.g. mess dues) to pay mess staff.  Bartenders are mess staff and need not be restricted to tending bar.  They can do other things as well.

 

[dapaterson]

Yes, it isn't black and white, but writ large the bar should provide sufficient revenue to cover the cost of bar operations, which includes the cost of bar staff when operating the bar.

Reg F messes have a bit more flex (and a lot more public support) than Reserve messes.

 

[Haggis]

1) Why do you have to drink alcohol to socialize with your colleagues?

You don't.  My point was that soldiers under 22 who could previously do so are now prohibited.  They still have to drive home on training nights. and no Mess Committee is going to be able to afford a shuttle bus or taxi chits every training night.

2) It just takes the will (and OK, the money) to implement them.

Mess revenues are predicted to decrease in the face of this legislation making the provision of taxi chits and the like even more burdensome.  There are also prhibitions under Ontario law against doing things that wil encourage the over consumption of alcohol

 

[stealthylizard]

I've set foot once in the Junior Ranks Mess in Edmonton, and that was for our malaria briefings before deploying.